I think we've discovered the problem with the flat.

[reddragdiva]

I fear we will need to have a word with the neighbours in the next flat and the one below. At the moment (and certainly I was at one o'clock this morning) I'm thinking in terms of obtaining a suitable quantity of pig's blood, using it to write SHUT THE FUCK UP in large, friendly letters on their front door and pouring the remainder through their letterbox. I realise it's not their fault the floor and dividing walls are built from acoustically transparent cardboard, but there's something about the hours between midnight and 8am on a school night that I hold precious, and violation of which leaves me just a little cranky. redcountess will be enquiring with the council on the subject of noise today.

I may or may not have a second go at them myself, but it does appear that sbp's recovery of the missing B-Movie pics has been almost entirely successful. Particularly sushidog in that corset. And that hat.

The loaner camera has been borrowed from excy so it looks all systems go for the weekend.

Update: Seventeen responses on noise and none on B-Movie photos? I'm shocked!

Comments

[twicezero.livejournal.com]

I know a little of how noisy flat can get to people, especially at night. I had a bad time with it a few years ago. I hope you get it sorted. Council sounds like a good place to start.

[arkady.livejournal.com]

Hmm. Need me to come over and terrorise them? I have the matching cat and rat accessories for the perfect "psychotic neighbour bitch from hell" look. Or you could borrow the cat and rat....

[http://users.livejournal.com/_nicolai_/]

They shouldn't be making that much noise in a weekday night, definitely.
Have you considered installing some sound-absorbing materials of your own? This might alleviate problems if the place is just poorly-constructed.
One can get blocks of underfloor heat and sound insulating material (sold to lay under laminate flooring), and/or hang soft dense objects from walls.

Nicolai

[barbedwirekiss.livejournal.com]

Hi. IIRC, the law states that it is illegal to make unreasonable amounts of noise between the hours of 11pm and 7am, such as to cause distress or disturbance to the general public.

By "unreasonable noise", I'd heard it explained as "louder than water boiling in a kettle".

Contact the environmental health officer at your local council offices. I can't remember whether Walthamstow counts as Haringey, or if you're in a different borough.

Anyway, they should give you an "emergency" number which you phone when the noise ocurs again. The EH officer will (should) turn up and monitor the noise levels. Normally, they will just record the levels for the first few times (to determine if it's a one-off, or a regular occurence). If it is "excessive" they can issue a "Cessation order" (I think it's called) which requires the person(s) making the noise to stop immediately or they can enter the property and confiscate whatever it is that's making the noise, although they seem less likely to follow that route if possible.

I know this as I had some "trouble" with neighbours in the past.

If you want, I can look into my old notes and contac a few people to see what the game is now.

[ksta.livejournal.com]

we have the same problem. aggressive alcoholics upstairs, and a loud florist guy downstairs, who is unable to talk below 20 decibels. paper thin floors and walls.

[markeris.livejournal.com]

it makes me laugh every time something like this comes up and rarely does a single helpful suggestion involves popping round for a quick cup of tea and asking them if they can be a bit quieter as the walls are a bit paper thin.

I`ve never an unpleasant experience going about it thusly.

or perhaps it`s just more fun to go straight to the council, police etc. for some people? lordy........

[reddragdiva]

It's Waltham Forest. Your old notes would be most welcomed :-)

[reddragdiva]

I'm not sure I was up to preparing tea at 1am. They did quieten down after I banged on the floor a bit.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_nicolai_/]

Well, yes, this had occurred to me as well.
I forgot about it at first as Diva seemed to say "... another word", so I thought a first word had had no effect.
Going to councils means the neighbours hate you eternally after, which is a pain, and that pain has to be weighed against the nuisance they're causing.
(of course, some people are just evil malicious scum and you can't do anything about their antisocial activities; my mother was forced to leave her house due to such neighbours)
Nicolai

[ksta.livejournal.com]

i did pop down and ask the florist to stfu, but very politely, and received a bemused and loud response which was basically NO, because he has a business to run. This apparently involves having the radio on at 6 am and making loud phone calls.

Last time I spoke to the people upstairs aboutit, they asked if they were making too much noise. I said yes, and they completely ignore my answer.

not all coucils are as good as that...

[twicezero.livejournal.com]

enfield only operate their noise unit during the day. They'ed thought that through. All said, most coucils are very cool about this stuff these days and i think, being a tenent you are in a better position than someone who has bought

[reddragdiva]

Although the quiet word will always come first, one should have the big stick options fully researched as well.

"(of course, some people are just evil malicious scum and you can't do anything about their antisocial activities; my mother was forced to leave her house due to such neighbours)"

Ask Ingvar about the Essex trash living in the flat above his. They have responded somewhat to a suitable combination LARTing - politely pissed-off angry BOFH and council and police - however.

[twicezero.livejournal.com]

these goffics yo see, we're not really good at dealing with people *grin*

[marnameow.livejournal.com]

You don't have to go 'round there *then*, but stick your head in some evening and ask if they could keep things quiet after midnight because you cannot sleep and have to work and the walls are crap. It's worth a go, because while going to the council may work it'll make it hard to live next to them afterwards, adn getting on with neighbours is a *good* thing.

[rbarclay.livejournal.com]

walls are built from acoustically transparent cardboard

That's one of the main reasons why I'm not able to live in buildings built after WW2. Real walls, and rooms at least 3.40 m high, that is living.

[arkady.livejournal.com]

This really depends on precisely where you are living. In a decent area with a higher proportion of older residents, the quiet word usually does wonders - but then again, in such areas the local residents tend to be more considerate of their neighbours and are less inclined to make a lot of noise in the first place, so the problem is less likely to arise. In less well-heeled areas, you're sometimes lucky if you escape with just a mouthful of abuse, and sometimes the quiet word can simply result in the noise levels escalating rather than dropping. that's why it's a good idea to have backup in the form of the police and the local council on your side and primed first.

I've had problems recently with our downstairs neighbours; for the most part, Winchmore Hill is a quiet residential area, and we've rarely had noise problems. However, the owner of the downstairs flat rented it out to three Albanian immigrants recently who seem to think it's fine to play loud music from 6am till 11pm, have the TV up so loud I can hear every word clearly and distinctly (and our walls and floors are not "acoustically transparent cardboard"), and to bounce balls on the hardwood floors and off the walls. We tried the polite word approach. My flatmate then tried the loud-banging-on-the-door approach.

Finally I showed up at their front door, with a very large, very evil-looking black rat on my shoulder, a pissed-off cat under my arm, and best psychotic glare firmly in place. I stood with my finger on the doorbell for a full 2 minutes, and kept it there for a further minute after one of the male residents opened the door (just to prove a point). I then told him if I hear any further noise from the flat, I would personally return and rip his balls off. He turned the music off straight away.

Now, if one of them forgets and plays music a little too loud, one of us just goes down and rings the doorbell until the music goes off. They never answer the door, but it always has the desired effect.

If you can't be friends with your neighbours, let them fear you...!

[themadcatlady.livejournal.com]

Oh, and re. the noisy neighbours. I know ALL about noisy neighbours. I have in the past made so much noise because of noisy neighbours that eventually they moved out. Bastards. If they're noisy, then excuse me, but I can be TEN times as noisy. Especially playing stuff like Marilyn Manson and Rob Zombie. They got scared, I guess.

It seems to be a problem everywhere though with noise travelling through ceilings and walls far to easily. I can hear the people upstairs walking around all the time (and I'm sure they're not stomping) and the goddess forbid when one of them brings his girlfriend back for a shag.... suffice to say that I hear it all. However, I am SO FUCKING LUCKY that they keep noise to reasonable hours, and to respect that, so do I.

Otherwise, I have a (not yet finished building) youth centre on my doorstep which will no doubt bring lots of joy (sarcasm!) to me in the future, and the East London Black Womens Centre at the back of my garden, who have noisy parties almost every weekend during the summer till 3 in the morning and other groups who use the centre to sing Hallelujahs from 10.00 on Sundays. Never mind it being used as a sunday school too, so I get lots of brats screaming all day long (that's after the Hallelujahs).

So there. You're not alone. If you want peace and quiet, buy yourself an island. :(

[arkady.livejournal.com]

I have been known to use Marilyn Manson, Iron Maiden and Cradle Of filth as aural punishment for noisy neighbours....

The one thing worse than hearing your neighbours having sex is being told by your upstairs neighbours that the person occupying the bedroom directly above yours is a single female then hearing squeaking noises at 3am and the shrill buzzing of a vibrator working overtime. :-/

[themadcatlady.livejournal.com]

My building is from about 1900. And it does NOT have real walls. I can hear the muslims in the next house talking and chanting in Arabic all the time through my living room wall.

[reddragdiva]

Not quite sufficiently quiet enjoyment of the premises?

Re: not all coucils are as good as that...

[themadcatlady.livejournal.com]

enfield only operate their noise unit during the day

So does Newham. And my problems lie with the parties at the East London Black Womens Centre on a Friday, Saturday and Sunday night. They are conveniently NOT there at weekends, and there is no one you can complain to or someone to tell them to shut up till Monday. I have been over there in my PJ's armed with only a dirty look and dangerous "don't fucking mess with me" attitude to tell them to turn down their noise. Which normally works that day. But the week (or the day) after, you get a different *group* partying at the centre, and it's the same shit over again. And in the summer on lazy Sunday afternoons I can't even sit in the garden and listen to my music quietly or talk to people on the phone because they drag their 6 foot speakers outside, which makes the floors shake. My cats are too scared because of it to go in their outside cat run. I am seriously looking forward to another "summer of joy" with that Centre (sarcasm) this year... :(

There you go Dave. So many people are going through the same kinds of shit with neighbours. I myself am considering to retreat to the deepest darkest lowlands of Wales and buy a shed in the middle of nowhere.

[arkady.livejournal.com]

Let's just say it took me a little while to work out what the shrill buzzing was...and then spent the rest of the night wishing I hadn't.

[rbarclay.livejournal.com]

Must be difference of building style then. Here in .at walls in old buildings are usually 30 - 70 cm thick, and built from real brick and mortar. Hearing much through those would be a challenge.

[marnameow.livejournal.com]

Update: Seventeen responses on noise and none on B-Movie photos? I'm shocked!

Well, you've not actually put the pics up yet, have you? There's a fine few of you looking more like an psychotic axe murderer than most psychotic axe murderers do, though. ;)

Sean is semi-contemplating coming to b-movie sometime....

[thepaintedone.livejournal.com]

I was just about to say the same thing. Having been on the other side of a noise dispute, I was quite happy to turn down the TV/music when I was asked nicely. What I objected to was the first thing I knew of the problem (he having just moved in next door and the previous tennant never having a problem) being him screaming outside my flat and hammering on the window with a broom.

Obviously you can't go round at 1AM to say something, but try going round the next day early evening and having a friendly chat. Don't say anything about the council, your rights or anything else which could be miscontrued as a threat. Because if people think you are threatening them they are far less likely to co-operate. In fact it will probably get thier back up and they will take even less care.

While the council route would probbaly work in the end, its much better if you can get them onside voluntarily. There are lots of other little ways a disgruntled neighbour can make your life miserable, which the council cant help with.

[themadcatlady.livejournal.com]

LOL!!!!! (I know it's not that funny when you have to go through it yourself...)

[silverfiligree.livejournal.com]

Do these people have jobs? If they're up till all hours partying I doubt it. You could get your evil revenge by having breakfast telly on REALLY LOUD in the morning to ruin their lie-in!

I agree with the others though, you should at least make an attempt at an amicable resolution (then send Arkady round).

[themadcatlady.livejournal.com]

Lucky you. I found that Edwardian style houses are in general more noise-proof than Victorian houses....

Re: not all coucils are as good as that...

[barbedwirekiss.livejournal.com]

I seem to remember hearing somewhere that, under the European Human Rights Act, you have a right to demand that a persistent nuisance is addressed by your council.

I will research and get back to you.

I will agree though that councils are being shit about sorting anything out at the moment. Don't askme about the obviously stolen car that's been parked outside my flats for over three months even though it has been reported to the police, council and local housing association!

[rbarclay.livejournal.com]

Lucky me indeed. I have no idea whatsoever what Edwardian or Victorian style houses are. ;)

Obviously stolen car

[inulro.livejournal.com]

Ah. I know the answer to that one, courtesy of our local community policeman (My other half learned some interesting things by turning up to our local Neighbourhood Watch meetings).

Obviously stolen or untaxed, etc. vehicles can sit there for months - especially untaxed, it takes 30 days to remove them the official way.

However, should there be anything about that car which would constitute a hazard to the general public, ie broken windows, ragged edges on bumpers, etc., the police can have it towed immediately. Yes, our community constable encouraged us to damage abandoned cars to get them towed straight away!

May not work in London boroughs where the police are too overworked, but shortly after said Neighbourhood Watch meeting some fucktard (probably the scumbags at no. 2) abandoned an obviously dead, non-MOT'd car in our road. It sat there for a couple weeks (I guess people were giving them the benefit of the doubt), but eventually a couple windows got put through, there was glass everywhere, constituting a hazard to the public, and hey presto, it magically got towed. I'm not sure which of our neighbours was responsible for the damage, or whether the local thugs did it.

[duranorak.livejournal.com]

Well, you've not actually put the pics up yet, have you?

Seconded - I'll comment when I see them. There didn't seem much point chiming in amongst the clamour-based clamour to say "Well, can we *see* the pics then?"...

E.
x

[arkady.livejournal.com]

ENOTAHITMAN!!!!

Re: not all coucils are as good as that...

[themadcatlady.livejournal.com]

I have actually spoken to and written a "diary" of the times and dates of the noise disturbances to the Council. By that time the summer was over though and during the winter they only have very occasional parties, and then the windows and doors of the Centre are usually closed and things are generally inside the building, not outside. So we left it that I just report any new disturbances again next year. And probably they won't do anything AGAIN this year. If they start again this year, I will definitely go a step further and take it through solicitor/court. Councils all suck mega mega.

Re:

[themadcatlady.livejournal.com]

Edwardian houses were built during the Edwardian era, and Victorian houses were built during the Victorian era. There you go. Edwardian houses are usually those ones with a small staircase up to the raised ground floor, a basement flat underneath, and rather large high rooms inside. Victorian houses are smaller than that, but also with 8 foot high ceilings.

[feanelwa.livejournal.com]

The neighbours down the garden from my mum had a loud bad music party until 4am on Saturday when i was ill. I was all set to go round and tell them to turn it down or i'd breathe on them but then realised i wouldn't be able to walk that far without needing a rest.

The ideal way to make the point, i thought, would be to take the thinnest loudest cymbal i have to their front garden early the next morning and hit it loudly for a long long time.

However i didn't wake up til midday :(

[severina-242.livejournal.com]

You're tall and scary - knock on their door and ask them very politely to keep down the noise. You could always highlight the fact (politely) that your partner is unwell and needs her rest.

[(Anonymous)]

If the walls and ceilings/floors are really that thin, just bear in mind that *they* can no doubt hear everything *you're* doing as well. (and I do recall, m'dear, that you could be one of the loudest people going about your business when others were trying to sleep)

Those of us who live in flats have to accept that we are living in close proximity to many other people, and that we *will* all hear each other doing something some time, sooner or later. There's a lot of give and take involved in living closely to other people the way we do. It should only be when a noise proves itself to be an ongoing pattern *and* all other possibilities have been tried that we should start talking about pigs' blood through the letter boxes, surely?

2c. :)

hugs,
barbara.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_nicolai_/]

Yeah...

Except, they called the police when their mistreated (but not so badly one could call the RSPCA...) dog wound her dog up and it barked. They called the police and claimed her dog had attacked them. Loud parties they wouldn't keep the noise down about. Very aggressive attitude about shared fencing, etc.
She couldn't live there any longer lest she get hospitalised, her blood pressure was so high.
I don't say "evil malicious" lightly. I hate those people, like I've hated few people since reaching adulthood, and I hope their house burns down around their ears and their dog gets owners that look after it properly.

The entire village can't stand these people. Some people, you can't win against :(

Nicolai

[reddragdiva]

Please excuse the somewhat apocalyptic turn of phrase. It's the sort of thing that springs to mind at 1am ...

They were virtually silent yesterday evening and last night. Which is nicer.

Re: Obviously stolen car

[sbp.livejournal.com]

You must live in the nice part of town then. A few years back a car was abandoned in the carpark of the pub we would go to at lunchtimes (and sometimes spend the afternoon in) to avoid working. Initially the wheels went missing and it was up on bricks, and the windows were broken. Then after a while we came in one lunchtime and noticed that someone had torched it and the burnt-out shell was still in the pub carpark. Right by a busy road junction too. Can't remember how long it took to be removed.

Re: Obviously stolen car

[inulro.livejournal.com]

We really don't live in the nice part of town. It's the only part of town we could afford that doesn't feature Obligatory Welfare Junk in the Garden (TM) and associated loveliness. Just behind us, however, is a rather scummy council estate (they burned out a car a couple weeks ago. Smelled awful when the tires started to go up), so the residents of our little area are quite keen to keep the damage off our streets and we have an active neighbourhood watch and helpful community police officer. It sounds a lot more middle class than it actually is.