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reddragdivaYou have Gaim 0.59 installed. You want 0.71 or higher for the new MSN lockin protocol.
- Try to install the FreeBSD binary package (for 4-stable). This fails with dependency-checking problems.
- Try to install from the source tarball with configure;make;make install. This fails from crap Perl in Gaim's 'l33t++ custom configurator thingy.
- Update various libraries by hand to fix the dependency problems. This breaks the current 0.59.
- By various evil hand-hacking involving cvsupit and portupgrade, get 0.59 working again.
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redcountess searches the Gaim bug database and sees that it
requires Perl 5.8 or later. Cheers to the FreeBSD ports system's dependency
checking! Install the package for Perl 5.8.1, 'cos there's no fuckin' way
we're sitting watching the thing compile.- Try to install from the source tarball again. This fails from some other crapness. (Not that Gaim is a Linuxism-infested 'l33tf3st.)
- With great trepidation, run cvsupit, which upgrades the whole fecking ports tree from CVS. You now have the port in place for 0.73.
- cd /usr/ports/net/gaim;make install - this runs. Until it gets to libatk, which must be deinstalled and reinstalled by hand, 'cos that's too clever for the dependency checking.
- cd /usr/ports/net/gaim;make install - this runs. Until it gets to libgtk, which is actually installed in the right version. It just doesn't think it is. Deinstall and reinstall by hand, which leads to it being recompiled. Have the metaphorical cup of tea, because GTK2 is a fat bastard.
- cd /usr/ports/net/gaim;make install - this runs. Until it gets to the fact that the previous version is still installed. Deinstall.
- make install - this tells you fairly quickly that the old version is still installed. Set variable to force installation.
- make install - this runs. It installs.
- Run gaim - it asks for /usr/local/lib/libatk-1.0.so.200, which apparently got trashed along the way. ln -s /usr/local/lib/libatk-1.0.so.400 /usr/local/lib/libatk-1.0.so.200 and try again.
- The fucker runs at fucking last. Fuck! redcountess updates her MSN contact list.
redcountess has a penis THIS BIG.
Maybe open source won't be wiping Windows off the map tomorrow.
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(no subject)
Date: 2003-11-30 05:52 pm (UTC)GAIM sucks to install on everything. I hate it.
(no subject)
Date: 2003-11-30 05:56 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2003-11-30 06:35 pm (UTC)Shit, it sucks to install ON linux.
Gotta make sure everything is JUST RIGHT!
Well, okay, some of that is GTK, which is also heavily infested with linuxisms.
I run into a lot of cheery undergrads who like to tell me that linux is the best desktop system for the world! Everything should run linux! It's SO EASY! Then I kick them in the groin.
(no subject)
Date: 2003-11-30 11:32 pm (UTC)IIRC it took me about an hour to get the Pile Of Stinking Shit running.
It's not LINUXISM-INFESTED, it's DeadRatism-infested.
(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-01 12:48 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-01 01:15 am (UTC)Now if you can tell me why I spent 56 minutes COUNT THEM 56 minutes downloading some linux source code BOLLOCKS for MAME only for it to say it CANNOT FIND THE FILE (b-b-but it is THERE) I might NOT have an apoplexy from frustration so early in the morning.
ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH *runs about bouncing off walls*
(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-01 01:35 am (UTC)- you managed to get hold of a gaim-build where the Debian maintainer has somehow managed to fix all of the crap
- you installed the "stable" version, which doesn't talk to Yahoo any more, probably not even MSN
- your box is already and completely running unstable
- you are Alan Cox
(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-01 01:41 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-01 01:55 am (UTC)MSN is, you guessed that one, too, what Mickysoft uses for its MSN bullshite.
Both of these protocols were recently changed, forcing people who wanted to use it through gaim to upgrade their gaim-installations.
(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-01 07:15 am (UTC)(which seems about as stable as RH7.2 was, i.e. it hasn't crashed since I installed it)
(no subject)
Date: 2003-11-30 05:55 pm (UTC)Or get a Mac :)
(no subject)
Date: 2003-11-30 06:20 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2003-11-30 06:33 pm (UTC)Easy way:
Date: 2003-11-30 06:47 pm (UTC)Re: Easy way:
Date: 2003-11-30 06:52 pm (UTC)Re: Easy way:
Date: 2003-11-30 06:54 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-01 01:56 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-01 02:18 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-01 02:24 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-01 03:11 am (UTC)GTK2 is tubby sure - but what DO you want people to use for GUI development? QT? I'd sooner scrub with a wire brush and bathe in detol. Java? Well, if you want everything to look ugly and run-once limp-slowly-everywhere technology that's fine.
The problem is people who don't really understand what makes something portable building on top of people who don't really understand what makes something portable.
But really, I still fail to comprehend why anyone would run BSD -- even if there's some warped belief it's technically superior, it's just too much shag to get anything to compile. [Which is, of course, the coders fault but that's no comfort.]
By the way, gaim 0.72 is out I believe. :-)
(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-01 03:44 am (UTC)"The problem is people who don't really understand what makes something portable building on top of people who don't really understand what makes something portable."
All The World's A VAX^W^WRed Hat.
"But really, I still fail to comprehend why anyone would run BSD"
The userland is the same Unixy stuff; it's that I find administering it significantly less painful than administering Linux. Using it is like a pain going away that you didn't realise was there until it's gone. It's nice to use something put together by computer scientists rather than rabid weasels on caffeine. It's a coherent operating system, rather than a kernel with various distributors' interpretations of GNU.
(Note that I only put FreeBSD on this box because I got it from
In this case, the problem was half that Gaim appears composed of gratuitous Linuxisms and half that the FreeBSD port/package isn't quite on the ball. FreeBSD ports tend to mess around with the upstream tarball approximately as much as Debian packages, and results vary.
(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-01 04:08 am (UTC)Hmm... compiled it once for garnome and it just worked -- though don't get me started on getting garnome to work - I have to hack source every time -- mainly because C++ coders are unable to realise that C requires variable declarations to come before code. [Is that still a requirement in C99? I think it is but am no longer sure.] Not that I've anything against C++ coders, except when they try to write C.
Using it is like a pain going away that you didn't realise was there until it's gone.
Could you give a specific example (however silly)? The only fervent BSD advocate I know in York looks like his desktop was designed at a time when X windows was a pretty neat idea. He's definitely what I consider a hair shirt coder. It would take a lot to persuade me that leaving Debian is a good idea because I find it fairly easy to keep a Debian machine ticking.
(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-01 05:15 am (UTC)Stuff like: setting up intarweb. There's a sig quote about this: "<wankel> every unix on the planet has the same route(1M) syntax/ but noooo, linux has to be different/ hell, *NT* has normal route syntax" The ports system, which, despite occasional pathological cases like Gaim, is generally extremely nice and works well, if you don't insist on bleeding-edge everything. (Similar to Debian in that regard.) The file system hierarchy.
It's nothing major. Just lots of the little things.
I used to have a hair-shirt desktop like that. I kept it for a month, and now run KDE.
It's entirely a matter of taste. I'm not a fervent advocate, I just like it a lot myself and consider it a serious option. Linuxism-infested code is a reason to avoid crap code, not a reason to suffer Linux.
(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-01 06:29 am (UTC)Ah... I use it so infrequently that I didn't realise... [I should know these things, for fucksake I actually teach a "dumbass networking in two hours" class, I should know this]. Then again, I guess it depends what you're brought up with. I'm a child of SYS V so I curse BSD for gratuitous changes to command line switches (on ls and ps which are more fundamental).
(Similar to Debian in that regard.)
Unless of course you run unstable in which case you deserve all you get. :-)
Anyway, thanks for the info -- much appreciated.
Linuxism-infested code is a reason to avoid crap code, not a reason to suffer Linux.
My philosophy is to run the most standard * system you can tolerate - that way you can run the most software with the least faff. Debian is pretty standard so almost everything will compile on it. Windows would be more standard but I have this urge to gouge my own eyes out rather than use it.
*(by which I mean "used by the most people who generate actual code you will want to run")
(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-01 07:10 am (UTC)FreeBSD is the most standard system I can tolerate ;-) For personal use, anyway.
Red Hat is more standard than Debian. Red Hat and Debian are effectively different OSes with the same kernel.
(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-01 07:14 am (UTC)Indeed - but I can't tolerate it (it's not that much more standard anyway). up2date is shitty broken nagware and rpms are dependancy hell.
Red Hat and Debian are effectively different OSes with the same kernel.
The differences aren't vast. I mean I ran Irix for five years and then solaris for four. Compared with that, the differences between Red Hat and Debian are real trainspotter issues. :-)
(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-01 05:19 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-01 06:21 am (UTC)This is all IMHO but it has a layer of kludgy preprocessing before it gets down to the C++ (the C++ metaobject system):
http://doc.trolltech.com/3.2/metaobjects.html
Anything based around the assumption that the language it's written in isn't up to the task and they have to write their own bodged extensions to it is fucked from day one. Given that the language in question is C++ (arguably already the most mind-bogglingly baroque language sensibly employed by human coders - and I don't mean that in a bad way, I code C++ for preference these days) this is a bad and wrong decision.
See:
http://doc.trolltech.com/3.2/signalsandslots.html
just fucking nasty. Anything with the name "meta object compiler" should be shunned on principle.
(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-01 06:58 am (UTC)I'm not a programmer, tho' I can code; and when I do, I don't like C or C++ at all and prefer BASIC or Pascal or even Fortran. But I broadly follow what you're on about. It's better-reasoned than any of the other rantsd against KDE/Qt and its use of C++ that I've seen. Although a distaste for C++ and baroque object frameworks is about the worst argument for using C instead that I can imagine, and that's exactly what the GNOME project did.
I still suspect that one day some grown-up descendant of Smalltalk will come along and blow away all this crap with malloc(), pointers, null-terminated strings, unchecked arrays and so on...
(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-01 07:02 am (UTC)You misunderstand me. I don't have a distaste for C++. If QT were written in C++ I would not object. Instead they decided that they would write in in C++ but bodge on top of that a meta-layer of their own which is preprocessed and then becomes C++.
some grown-up descendant of Smalltalk will come along and blow away all this crap with malloc(), pointers, null-terminated strings, unchecked arrays
C++ with the STL rarely needs new and delete (the C++ equivalent of malloc and free). However, if those are your main sticking points in an OO programming language then, if you forgive the grotesque grammar, "Java are the droids you're looking for" (shame that it runs like a lame, lazy snail on moggadon).
(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-01 07:16 am (UTC)And its prehistoric memory management is an objection to C, not to OO. The overuse of C is the main reason we have the computing culture we do, of "buffer overruns" and remote (h|cr)acking exploits &c. Java is arguably better, as is C#, or Objective C, but I think higher-level languages will eventually win out. I hope so, anyway.
(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-01 07:26 am (UTC)Apologies.
And its prehistoric memory management is an objection to C, not to OO.
This is hardly a reason to advocate QT - which largely uses the same memory management models - over GTK.
I think higher-level languages will eventually win out
When computer power allows it, naturally, then most people will use garbage collecting, bounds checking arrays and all such hand-holding -- hooray, life will be a lot easier. At the moment though it is tooooooo slooooooow for functions that GTK and QT are trying to achieve. I teach C to students - my lecture on buffer overflow sploits is this thursday. (actually, that's only part of the lecture but I tell them at length about the dangers and horrors of fucked memory managmnt).
If I could magically make a language fast enough to sensibly be useful for most tasks it'd be Java or Python.
(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-01 09:30 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-01 11:07 am (UTC)That would be me then... [But, to be fair, I did it because it wasn't important that the GUI locked while the update was doing.]
Is it that slow, really?
In my experience yes.
Seemingly in Sun's too:
http://www.internalmemos.com/memos/memodetails.php?memo_id=1321
(I have no idea if that is a genuine memo or a famous hoax).
(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-02 05:50 am (UTC)Similarly, I didn't meant to imply that the memory management of either Qt or GTK were significant factors. I sort of meandered into a general criticism of the C family.
I think much of the ills of Java are due to the VM arrangement, which isn't strictly necessary. It can be compiled to native code and in an open-source world there's no reason why not. One individual binary installation is unlikely to have to run on >1 CPU family. The VM thing comes from a closed-source mindset.
(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-02 05:52 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-01 11:31 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-01 11:38 am (UTC)Anyway... many l33t points for getting it all to work in the end.
(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-01 11:53 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-01 11:57 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-01 05:20 am (UTC)[2] It's that my Mac is dead and I can't afford a new one.
(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-01 09:39 am (UTC)Hmmmmmmmmm...
Date: 2003-12-01 02:47 pm (UTC)humbug:backups/backup% pkg_info ircII
Information for ircII-20030709:
Comment:
The 'Internet Relay Chat' and 'Internet Citizens Band' Client
Description:
The ircII program is a full screen, termcap based interface to Internet Relay
Chat. It gives full access to all of the normal IRC functions, plus a variety
of additional options. It also has support for ICB -- Internet Citizens Band.
Just for shits and grins, though:
humbug:chat/gaim# pwd
/usr/pkgsrc/chat/gaim
humbug:chat/gaim# make install
[...]
===> Installing for ncurses-5.3nb1
===> ncurses-5.3 is already installed - perhaps an older version?
*** If so, you may use either of:
*** - "pkg_delete ncurses-5.3" and "make reinstall" to upgrade properly
*** - "make update" to rebuild the package and all of its dependencies
*** - "make replace" to replace only the package without re-linking
*** dependencies, risking various problems.
*** Error code 1
Stop.
make: stopped in /usr/pkgsrc/devel/ncurses
[...]
*** Error code 1
Stop.
make: stopped in /usr/pkgsrc/chat/gaim
Plunk. Don't even get past aspell needing a newer ncurses than I've got, on which not much depends. I can get past that... but I'm sure I'll be hosed through the nose by gtk2 next and I'd sort of rather not suddenly make galeon and openoffice unuseable-by-way-of-absence on my workstation so fuck it.
Clearly, my BSD (http://www.netbsd.org/)'s cock is no bigger than your BSD (http://www.freebsd.org/)'s cock.
Oh well.
Some general thoughts on BSD-y ports (or, if you're a freak like me, pkgsrc) systems:
(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-24 02:24 pm (UTC)The trick is really just to keep your ports updated. That, and do a portupgrade occasionally as well.