I'm gonna drive if it takes me years.
Dec. 10th, 2003 11:44 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
reddragdiva![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif){kind=small}
redcountess and I are giving thought to getting a car. See her post. Not for work, but for lifestyle. Your comments related to car purchase and ownership in the UK, please.
Edit: When I say 'lifestyle,' I mean things such as Liz's health - on bad days, her legs are sufficiently nonfunctional that she can't get down the steps in the tube station. A car would enhance her life (and hence mine) significantly, even if it's just me driving. The money is the catch, of course.
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I'd advise against it
Date: 2003-12-10 04:02 pm (UTC)Re: I'd advise against it
Date: 2003-12-10 04:43 pm (UTC):-)
(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-10 04:11 pm (UTC)With fabulous bad timing I recently donated all my driving theory books to the charity shop, so I can't pass them on :(
(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-10 04:39 pm (UTC)If neither of you would use it on a daily basis for work, chances are pretty good that after you take everything into account it's cheaper to use a combination of public transport, taxis, and hire cars -- especially if London-based.
Bear in mind too that hire cars are usually fast and new, and that you don't have to worry about maintaining them, MOTing them, insuring them or paying for year-round parking. . .
(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-11 02:03 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-10 04:47 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-11 09:27 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-10 05:01 pm (UTC)Your Costs:
The Benefits:
The article basically made the case well that to run a car in London is very rarely cost-effective. If you were to use taxis everywhere instead and hired a car for the rare occasions you needed a vehicle for a week oyu would save money on the cost of running one yourself. This is - in a nuthshell - the theory behind the car clubs being set up (a local neighbourhood shares a number of cars which are centrally maintained, etc. and parked very close by which are rented by the hour at a cheaper rate than Budget or Hertz or whoever would do so)
Every year when the insurance estimate arrives I realise that to get rid of the car and use an annual travelcard plus taxis and the occasional hire car would indeed be more cost-effective. But then I keep the damn thing because I love my car ...
YMMV of course ...
(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-10 05:18 pm (UTC)I originally bought a car because of a) the cost of train fares for two people down to Bath at the weekend and b) the lack of transport in the outlying countryside that meant that we couldn't get out to see friends without having another person collect us and deliver us there. With my first car, the amortised cost of the car, with its low fuel running costs, meant that it was roughly the same or slightly less for us to travel down to Bath with the regularity that we managed and also gave us the freedom to go and visit friends in the are who were not served by public transport.
Then I bought a horse. I recently took part in a TfL survey on cycling. When explaining my car use, I pointed out that for an essential journey (since I *do* need to see her to check on her health since it's up to me to call the vet if she's ill, (the horse is no longer a luxury, instead, due to what the horse has done for me, the horse is as strong a commitment as any family pet and possibly stronger), I had the option between half-an-hour's drive or a two-hour trip by public transport and shank's mare, that included three miles of walking. (And this isn't an guess, this is an accurate portrayal of trying to reach Epping Forest from Shoreditch at *any* time of the year.)
There was silence at the other end of the line followed by a "yes, I can see what you mean". Mind you, I also freaked him by saying that the number one reason I wasn't back riding my bike regularly as needed was "other cyclists who don't know the rules of the road".
(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-10 05:32 pm (UTC)In my own case I really cannot justify keeping a car whilst living in central London. Although all travelling in town would be easier and faster using the tube / buses / occasional taxi, and my regular journey to Doncaster could be done by car, my visit to see my mum every 10-14 days would take some three plus hours each way by public transport but only 25mins by my car. It would, however be much cheaper and easier to join a car club (indeed, one is setting up very near me)
I think, for me, the more likely scenario is that I return to two (powered) wheels at some point ...
(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-10 05:33 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-10 05:42 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-10 07:36 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-11 04:33 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-11 05:18 am (UTC)As opposed to the boneheads in cars, who act in such a way as to endanger me - typically far more, in light of their greater speed and mass - who might suffer penalties if I could gather up several witnesses and the Police didn't just ignore it, which they always do.
As far as I can see the only difference here is the speed, mass, and greater number of motorists; and the fact that, as a consequence of the speed, I am typically faster than a boneheaded cyclist and as a result have far more control over any approach.
As long as the law continues to send the message that even deliberate assaults with motor vehicles on cyclists are not serious crimes, as in the Baxter case, I can't see that this situation will change.
a cyclist cannot depend on courtesy from a driver any more
This has never been the case, as can be easily seen from old editions of the CTC magazine. Practically the first act of the motoring lobby was to have rear lights made mandatory - that doesn't seem so bad, but the underlying rationale was a shift in responsibility away from the fast-moving vehicle at night (not to outspeed its headlights) to the slow-moving vehicle being overtaken.
(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-11 05:28 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-11 05:41 am (UTC)I often find peds and cyclists annoying in London, but that's not the same as dangerous; for example, a ped who staggers blindly off the pavement is irritating, but evasion is easy enough if one doesn't ride in the gutter. Couriers can be pretty maddening, but in practice they can handle overtaking well enough; and there aren't _that_ many people on what we used to call "foreign language student specials" (falling apart), because they tend to ride on the pavement - which is irresponsible of them, but gets them out the way.
Boneheads who run reds, I find, are equally annoying whatever their mode of transport - but once again I suspect the ones on bikes are primarily risking their own lives. This is why I don't have a problem with motorcyclists; on my daily commute (not in London) I see plenty of them risking their own lives, but never mine.
Hello from another horsewoman
Date: 2003-12-11 02:49 pm (UTC)Meg
(ps - for the curious...connection == me->
Re: Hello from another horsewoman
Date: 2003-12-12 02:44 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-10 07:37 pm (UTC)A car makes all other things save house-buying pale into insignificance as a mechanism for spending money; not to mention that it's quite antisocial.
(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-11 12:29 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-11 05:23 am (UTC)The Grauniad reckon that an average family car costs L4,000 a year. You'd do better than that, but still...
(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-11 05:39 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-11 05:42 am (UTC)I've made the debt consolidation->more debt mistake myself.
(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-11 05:53 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-11 02:19 am (UTC)Breakdown of my costs:
Insurance: 600-700 (S reg car, license for 10 years, 5 years no claims discount, living in Zone 2)
Tax:125
MOT:30 (assuming nothing needs done)
Parking outside my house:50
Total approx 800-900 pounds not including any maintenance or petrol
that money would buy an awful lot of train journeys, but if you do intend on going away often or going to places not easily accesible by public transport it's the only real way.
On saying all that, I'm not giving up my car ever
(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-11 03:17 am (UTC)PS: Arthritis may be a misnomer, it seems. I tested negative for all testable-for varieties of the disease, even though I showed the symptoms.
(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-11 05:50 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-11 09:30 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-11 10:03 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-11 04:57 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-11 05:34 am (UTC)cheap to buy - 800 quid for a 1994-1885 reg
if you get a 1.6 theyre good at fuel ecomomy
very spacious.
cheap to fix
really good on motorways
they look quite modern
they have lots of whistles and bells in em usually.
(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-11 05:51 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-11 09:17 am (UTC)You can swap your Aussie license for a UK license for 29 quid. That's a LOT cheaper than going thru all the driving lesssons/tests malarky.
On the other hand, you lose your aussie license, and let's face it, they're a damn sight prettier.
I now have dual driving licenses, on the theory that i have one as backup, or badly need to play the 'lost tourist' card.
Insurance is the biggest cost here. Seriously, it's massive.
Road tax, however, is lower than aussie standards. My Honda is 30 quid a year, but i suspect it's about 5x that much for a small car.
Insurance over here has strange ideas about what constitutes a 'powerful' car. a 1600cc engine in a four-door sedan is medium, and 2+ litres is (ahem) huge. Engine sizes affect tax and insurance. Keep this in mind when purchasing.
Cars work a lot harder in London; just because a toyota/subaru should do 300,000 kms in Australia, doesn't mean that it'll last anywhere near that in London.
The MOT here is moderately strict - but actual enforcement is, like most things here, patchy at best. You can probably find a garage that will ignore your problems if they're not too major.
However, try to avoid buying a car that has it's MOT due v.soon, as this may indicate there's something troublesome.
Grey imports from outside the UK are quite common; however they incur higher insurance premiums. (Found that out the hard way.)
If you want someone who's moderately mechanically minded to check out a potential car, give me a call.
Good luck.