Choo choo choo it's a prison of sound!

[reddragdiva]

I am loving reading Paul Graham at the moment. His theme for the past year or so has been to encourage geeks to make buckets of money.

(Paul Graham is a highly advanced geek. You know the spam filter in Gmail and Thunderbird? Paul Graham came up with the original idea.)

"The hard part about figuring out what customers want is figuring out that you need to figure it out ... That's the essence of a startup: having brilliant people do work that's beneath them ... take people so smart that they would in a big company be doing 'research,' and set them to work instead on problems of the most immediate and mundane sort. Think Einstein designing refrigerators."

I'm very smart indeed, smarter than most people I know, but I'm not that smart. Quite a lot of you reading this are way more brilliant than me. But at least I can try to get clues and get there more slowly.

I've been stalled on the business plan for about two weeks now. (I know the next three steps; things have just been rather frantic, with my heavy schedule of job hunting, housework and panicking.) I'm realising I'll need to think on whether I've even got the right idea ... As I write this, arkady is sewing doll clothes, which is a good example of someone of talent doing work beneath them. It's very motivating.

Comments

[medakse.livejournal.com]

As I write this, arkady is sewing doll clothes, which is a good example of someone of talent doing work beneath them. It's very motivating.

Ask Arkady if she's read Our Mutual Friend by Charles Dickens. The character, Jenny Wren, is a dolls' dressmaker, with business cards and everything. She also gestures her needle at people, as if she's poking their eyes out :)

This is brought on, of course, by the massive studying for prelims going on. My brain is making connections it shouldn't ever make.

[kineticfactory.livejournal.com]

Oddly enough, I've been reading Hackers and Painters recently. It's a pretty interesting book. (I'm about halfway through it.) He's certainly very much a big-picture sort of guy.

Not entirely sure I accept his argument about wealth inequality being harmless; it seems to be predicated on the Thatcherian axiom that there is no such thing as society, only a marketplace.

His arguments about elegant and inelegant programming languages, however, are spot on. :-)

[ronebofh.livejournal.com]

Not sure if you've seen this rebuttal to Walker's book... it's been making the rounds.

[ciphergoth.livejournal.com]

Thank you very much for that link!

Great paintings, for example, get you laid in a way that great computer programs never do. Even not-so-great paintings - in fact, any slapdash attempt at splashing paint onto a surface - will get you laid more than writing software, especially if you have the slightest hint of being a tortured, brooding soul about you. For evidence of this I would point to my college classmate Henning, who was a Swedish double art/theatre major and on most days could barely walk.

[hairyears.livejournal.com]

Great painting overalls get people thinking you're a pigeon fancier. And painters' brains are fried by solvent inhalation.

[kineticfactory.livejournal.com]

Thanks for that; I've just blogged (http://dev.null.org/blog/) it.

[jhaelan.livejournal.com]

Definitely an interesting book; still not sure about Lisp being the holy grail of languages but I've not used it..

[kraant.livejournal.com]

It is and it isn't...

If you want to just hack something together for a lark you're probably better off sticking with python.

If you want to explore a problem domain where there's no clear route from A to B then LISP is great. The kinds of data structures and coding styles that you can use are pretty much only limited by your imagination.

It's like working with putty instead of lego.

[jhaelan.livejournal.com]

Thank's for the analogy; some of his comments make more sense now

[ashbet]

I don't know that she's doing work 'beneath her,' though -- it's creative, she enjoys it, and she's making something original and handcrafted. She just needs to get paid oodles of money for it, that's all ;)

-- A <3

[reddragdiva]

I mean in the sense of Einstein designing refrigerators (a job he actually did), because he had equity in the company. "Beneath one's talents," perhaps; necessary drudgework. Like timeplease, a computer scientist, cleaning the toilets at his pub. Because it's his pub.

[juliet]

Yeah, but cleaning toilets is, I submit, just Not Fun, whereas sewing can be enjoyable in & of itself. I enjoy knitting for its own sake - I also enjoy designing stuff, but I wouldn't want not to get to do the knitting as well (& not *just* because my approach to knitting design owes a certain amount to 'try it & see what works out' :-) ). Similarly with sewing, for me, anyway.

[reddragdiva]

There is that :-) What I mean is that one of the plus points for the dolls for her is that there's a lot of moderately tedious drudge work to be done which requires not much actual creativity or thought, so can be done on depressed, tired or generally *splat* days. Thus using inspiration when it's there and getting on with the labour when it isn't.

[juliet]

Ah, right, yes, that makes more sense. And, possibly, may cheer up the tired/depressed/splat days - I find that *producing* something makes me feel better about a day. You can say to yourself: look, I made *that* today.

[redcountess]

Yes, one reason why I must get a crochet hook and some yarn (crocheting being easier on the arms than knitting).

[ashbet]

"Look, I made *that* today" is what's kept me going for some time now . . . I'm ridiculously hard on myself about timelines for my projects, but part of it is that finishing something gives me such a lovely momentary high, and I *need* those highs right now.

Painting has proven to be marvellous therapy on some levels -- my art has always been a solace and a place to vent emotions, but painting works in a way that drawing doesn't always -- even if inspiration has momentarily deserted me, I can still work on filling in backgrounds or layering hair textures.

Good luck with the crocheting :>

-- A, on Day Two of Extreme Splat To The Point Of Not Getting Out Of Bathrobe, off to see pdoc in a couple of hours :/

[redcountess]

Good luck there *hugs*

[ashbet]

Thanks, darlin' :)

Fortunately, I have to Get Dressed in order to GO to the appointment, so I am now clothed, which is progress. I always feel better when I've had a good bath, and I'm fanatically clean -- part of the reason why Bathrobe Days are so alarming is that feeling grungy gives me such a lousy emotional state, but I just can't snap myself out of it.

I'll be packing for Convergence today . . . hopefully I'll fit into some of the stuff I'm planning on wearing!!

Good luck is most appreciated :>

-- A <3

[arkady.livejournal.com]

I'm ashamed to have to admit that until David came round, I was on Day Three of not even getting out of bed. Sometimes laptops are just too convenient.

[reddragdiva]

push push push!

;-*

[juliet]

Really? I've found it the other way around - using circular needles for knitting is a significant help in reducing the pressure on the arms. Join london.crafts!

[kineticfactory.livejournal.com]

There can also be something meditative about doing cognitively undemanding drudge work from time to time; think a Zen monk sweeping leaves.

Or, to quote Ian Curtis: "I used to work in a factory and I was really happy because I could daydream all day."

[mstevens.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure Cleaning Toilets is a good example. Most of Graham's focus seems to be on situations where you can improve things by applying more intelligence than is usually seen as worthwhile. I'm not convinced that this applies to toilets.

[reddragdiva]

timeplease's too — I fully expect Steve to construct a robot janitor.

[valkyriekaren.livejournal.com]

Ask arkady if she knows the story about the big Neo-Gothic Catholic church in Cambridge being founded on the money from the patent for the mechanism that makes dolls' eyes open and close when you lay them down. I'm sure she'll get a kick out of it. Sadly I can't find any Google references!

[alexmc.livejournal.com]

> I've been stalled on the business plan for about two weeks now.

Want me to look at it?

[reddragdiva]

Steps stalled on: some low-to-medium level text processing, then doing stuff with the processed data, then ... contacting people about money.

The stall has been because I've been ridiculously busy with other stuff including, of course, panicking about being severely cash strapped! Tch ...

[specialunclet.livejournal.com]

'Think Einstein designing refrigerators'

he did, or at least a motor for one

[hairyears.livejournal.com]

There's an awful lot of very bright people working below their capability and education: galling for me, considering the decade I spent sweating blood to get work that fulfils all facets of my vast and detailed incompetence.


Reminder to self: sort out interview for that part-time MSc.

[juliet]

Depends on your definitions, though. Not everyone *wants* to work to the limits of their capability/education. I rather like doing a job that I can basically do on somewhere around 50% of time - gives me more time during work hours to sort out some of the drudgery of daily life/keep up with correspondance/etc, so my evenings are freer. However, I would doubtless feel differently about this if what I was doing didn't stretch me during the 50% of time I *do* spend on it!

And, in fact, I'm looking at changing career again to get something that I'll find more interesting, so... (qualification will take a good few years, though).

[kineticfactory.livejournal.com]

Me too. I find that I need enough slack to follow extracurricular pursuits (currently music, mostly); i.e., to be able to make time to sit down and work on projects not related to work. I had a decent amount of that kind of slack in my previous job (at a university in Australia; university jobs are good for that), though have somewhat less of it in my present job.

One of the other people here changed his working arrangements to work 4 days a week at a 20% pay cut (as he has a business on the side). Perhaps it's something to keep in mind?

[juliet]

Currently I've arranged that for the next 3 years (while I'm back at university), I'll be doing 5-days-work-in-4-days (& going to college on the 5th day) during term-time, & normal 5-day week out of term. I can't afford the 20% pay cut currently, sadly, but in the long term that's exactly what I'm aiming at - to work 3 or 4 days a week.

[kineticfactory.livejournal.com]

That sounds like a lot of work. Good luck.

What are you studying, btw? A further degree carrying on from previous degrees, or something totally new?

[kineticfactory.livejournal.com]

Actually, I just read the answer further down in your thread.

Psychology sounds interesting; it's something I've found myself reading a lot about over the past few years. I imagine that, were I to go back to university and do another degree, it'd be in that.

[juliet]

and yes, university jobs are very good for flexibility/not having people check up on you all the time! My current job is with a university, & I very much like the working culture.

[hairyears.livejournal.com]

Yes, some slack would be welcome: Part-time MSc in Mathematics, Black belt, fitness training and... social life. That's taking over in a way that would have shocked me six months ago: LiveJpournal is working.

What are you looking at studying?

[juliet]

I've just got a place on a post-graduate conversion course in psychology, at South Bank - I'll be studying part-time (one day a week, have arranged appropriate flexitime with current employers) for the next 3 years. That will give me Graduate Basis for Registration with the British Psychological Society, whereupon it'll take me another 3 years full-time, or more part-time, to qualify as a counselling psychologist. I'm also considering clinical psychology (in part because it's possible to get an NHS training contract for that, where it isn't for counselling psych), but so far my feeling is that I'd prefer counsellling psych. I shall investigate further as I go through the next 3 years, which should give me a better feel for where exactly I'm going.

[hairyears.livejournal.com]

Part-time study: done that, it's very rewarding - wait 'til you meet your fellow-students, the 'matures' are very different to the kiddies who've come up straight from school!

I think you'll enjoy it, despite (or maybe because of) the life of essay deadlines and project work. But I'm prepared to bet that, five years into doing it for a living, you'll think to yourself that the journey from here to there was just as fulfilling as the destination. Maybe more so: you'll look around and start developing your skills again...

...Which is a long way 'round to saying that you'll come to see my point of view about developing and working to the limit of your capabilities. A limit which is always far more than you ever believed was possible; more rewarding, more fulfilling, more fun, more life.

[juliet]

I think you're missing part of my point. Developing my capabilities, & working to my limits: fine. Doing that in the *paid job* sense - not necessarily. There are many things I want to do, and there simply *isn't* paid work that would fulfill all of them simultaneously (not to mention all the other things that by definition aren't work - the social stuff, for example).

I don't want a job that doesn't stretch me some of the time; but I *do* want a job that I can do in less than the time for which they pay me, because that frees me up to do other things in the rest of the time. Sometimes, those other things are the life-maintenance things (which means that my evenings are clear to do things I can't do/can't get away with at work); sometimes there are other interests that I *can* keep up with at work during my free time.

Basically, I don't see my paid job as of overwhelming importance in my life, although I freely admit that I wouldn't want something that isn't stretching when I *do* do the work for which I'm actually paid. And one of the reasons for my retraining is that I think I'd find that more interesting than what I do now; and also that I'm deliberately getting into something where constant retraining/development is an *obligatory* part of the job.

Of course, what I *actually* want is to get paid about what I am now (maybe a little extra), but for working only about 50% of the time. This would avoid the slight inconvenience of the current setup, which involves me sitting in front of my desk 34 hrs/week even when I'm not *actually* doing work. I'd settle for that arrangement but with less pay. This is what I'm aiming for with the psychology, in fact, although it'll work rather differently than a similar arrangement in my current job would.

[arkady.livejournal.com]

I like being bright and creative. I don't like the idea of being forced to be bright and creative on a daily basis for someone else's benefit other than my own (and no, a weekly/monthly paycheck doesn't count). For the most part, I'm doing the dolls for me - it's a creative outlet that doesn't - touch wood - appear to have blocked up yet, unlike my other past outlets. The fact that it can result in some lucrative cash for me is just a beneficial side-effect.

I don't feel that a normal 9-5 job should have to use all of my abilities, intellectual, creative or otherwise, in order for me to feel fulfilled - but being trapped into a job where I have to use them would very rapidly sour any enjoyment I take in them and probably kill off what talent I have.

[hairyears.livejournal.com]

For the most part, I'm doing the dolls for me

If the Bank thinks that any of us are geeking for the greater glory of Shareholder Value and the General Economic Good they are sadly mistaken. I geek for the sheer joy of it: it's what I am, not just what I do from nine to five. Or from eight to eight.

And I really don't mean nine-to-fiving when I say 'bright people working below their capability'.

Very, very few people can cheerfully chew and swallow the gristle and bile of a banking job - or any of the things that make you almost well-to-do in London - but I'd like to think that all that talent that's ticking over in undemanding jobs is enriching it's owners in other ways: social, artistic, musical, political, literary, charitable and educational. Or just plain fun.

FWIW, pursuing a craft or creative pastime for you and for the joy of it will probably produce better art, and a better use of your capabilities - and a quality of life that I would envy - and will probably leave you, too, wondering why people who have so much to offer end up settling for so little.

[hserus.livejournal.com]

Paul Graham is also the blithering idiot who came up with "ideas" like http://www.paulgraham.com/ffb.html

And he seems to have deluded himself into thinking that Bayesian is a cureall silver bullet for spam

It was rather good fun getting together with a bunch of people who do know what in the trenches spam filtering is, and puncture his balloon a bit, back in late 2003 at the John Harvard brewpub in Boston, where he and Simson Garfinkel were the experts in a "meet the expert" program organized by a magazine (SciAm I think). He's just pompous enough to make an excellent, and appropriate target for a lot of balloon puncturing.

[reddragdiva]

Yes, he's smart enough to think he's smarter than he is ;-) But still worth reading, given a grain of salt.

[kest]

I dig Paul Graham. I'm brilliant. I'd love to make bucketloads of money. I just need *gumption*. (Actually, I usually describe it as 'balls.' I don't have them.) More than reading someone else's words can give me, I'm afraid, no matter how motivating the words are.

[liz-lowlife.livejournal.com]

NO! I'M LARS ULRICH!!
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NO! I'M LARS ULRICH!!
NO! I'M LARS ULRICH!!
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NO! I'M LARS ULRICH!!
NO! I'M LARS ULRICH!!
NO! I'M LARS ULRICH!!
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NO! I'M LARS ULRICH!!
NO! I'M LARS ULRICH!!
NO! I'M LARS ULRICH!!

[reddragdiva]

Has someone 'l33tly haxx0red you?

[liz-lowlife.livejournal.com]

http://www.livejournal.com/users/gashinryu/162917.html?nc=8