The dolls on the grille are caked in bloody bug guts.

[reddragdiva]

It's the Land of Weird Shit on the laptop. I installed kubuntu-desktop a while ago, because no sensible free software desktop user will be running all-GNOME or all-KDE. I also installed all the KDE and GNOME salad I could find. Twenty-gig disk — free software toys? GIMME!

(The difference to the user is that GNOME is made as simple as possible and sometimes simpler, whereas KDE is the Land of Bling: if there's an empty space it must be filled with something annoying and flashy and preferably starting with K. KDE is like Windows that works properly; GNOME is like MacOS 9 duplicated with a Bizarro ray.)

So Saturday I tried starting the laptop in KDE instead of GNOME. Couldn't find hibernate or suspend, which was annoying (having to shut down completely each session). Got out of KDE, logged into GNOME ... it's broken. The panels flash and have nothing in them. Then they stop flashing and there's no way to start an application. Failsafe GNOME did the same. KDE BROKE GNOME!!

(I'm sure this isn't a common occurrence; arkady happily switches between the two with no problems. But it's definitely happened here!)

So I'm back in KDE and still can't find hibernate. Then I'm looking through the five zillion menus and spot the ACPI tab in the Battery section of the Laptop control panel. (Where's Waldo?) I see an option to suspend on closing the lid ...

... and it works fast and flawlessly. Searching the damn web showed that the suspend option is hidden in klaptop's right-click menu, and I guessed correctly that klaptop is the name of the battery icon, which is good 'cos suspending on lid close always really pissed me off. Standby (suspend to RAM, which is what our Mac G4 does — two seconds to suspend, four to resume) doesn't work, but Linux support for that sort of thing is patchy at best, and even Windows support isn't fantastic.

So KDE broke GNOME, but does suspend (though I'm sure GNOME would if they, e.g., provided a clicky button). And I think I do prefer KDE. But what the fuck.

Things Ubuntu 6.04 needs to kick arse:

• Make convenient stuff obvious. I shouldn't have to play Where's Waldo? with the interface! I should have been able to add it to my page months ago without scouring Google for that specific question after I'd accidentally discovered it was possible at all, rather than assuming it wasn't. Why isn't a clicky button to standby/suspend/hibernate sitting right there? Why aren't all three showing in both the GNOME (hibernate only) and KDE (none) logout menus? I've stopped even looking for stuff in GNOME any more, because they've taken too much out; I just assume they suck. Is that the aim?
• Integrate GNOME and KDE to the point that a user does not have to think about which desktop it's "supposed" to belong to. Not like Red Hat's disastrous Bluecurve, but just so a user can start a KDE app in GNOME or a GNOME app in KDE and not get an overly jarring experience (huge menu fonts, etc). Freedesktop.org is a start, but you have five months at most.
• Make damn sure KDE can't break GNOME or vice-versa, ever, ever. What the fuck.

I understand the details, but I don't want to have to. I'm running Ubuntu to do stuff, not to clog my brain with Linux minutiae.

I'm going to end up a developer at this rate.

Comments

[mjg59.livejournal.com]

Suspend ought to appear in gnome if you edit /etc/default/acpi-support and uncomment the second line then reboot.

Of course, if gnome is broken, this isn't actually terribly helpful.

[reddragdiva]

"Suspend ought to appear in gnome if you edit /etc/default/acpi-support and uncomment the second line then reboot."

I'm sure the nontechnical users Ubuntu is after will be very pleased to hear that ;-p

"Of course, if gnome is broken, this isn't actually terribly helpful."

KDE is fine for now, having found where the suspend option was hiding ...

The main thing I want is for people to be able to start apps for the other desktop without it looking completely outlandish. A bit different maybe, but not, e.g. GNOME menus in 8-point and KDE menus in 12-point. I'm speaking strictly from the shallow, surface-oriented "ew, icky" perspective here.

Two desktops with radically different approaches actually seems to have turned out to be a good thing — competitive spirit combines with a compatible license to keep people on their toes but make a win for everyone. Here's to fd.o sorting out the important differences ...

[hellsop.livejournal.com]

I'm going to end up a developer at this rate.

That's a bad thing? Commercial shops pay excellently for applications design, substantially more than they do a random code wonk. Non-commercial projects spend almost no time on such things, and you've seen what happens with that lack. It's the biggest cause of the "Not ready for the desktop" assessment.

[reddragdiva]

A job shouting at people about usability? Sounds fun!

[shamus9999.livejournal.com]

/me silently points at Redmond, WA

[reddragdiva]

Or not!

[shamus9999.livejournal.com]

I said nothing!

[steer.livejournal.com]

. Why isn't a clicky button to standby/suspend/hibernate sitting right there?

Because laptop BIOS is so often flaky/broken that suspend/standby will rarely work -- hence it is deliberately something that is hard to switch on. Gnome should provide hibernate though IIRC.

I've never had KDE break gnome or vise versa. KDE is quite irksome IMHO.

[reddragdiva]

GNOME does provide hibernate and I've been using it successfully since Hoary. I suppose they could switch it on per model known to work properly and provide a suitably apparent ticky-box for those wishing to live dangerously.

mjg59 is the expert on the funny little ways of laptops and Linux, of course.

KDE versus GNOME is thankfully a matter of taste. But I like apps from both and it would be more aesthetically correct if they'd play nicer. Thankfully both camps realise this, and hence fd.o, is the Right Thing.

[steer.livejournal.com]

GNOME does provide hibernate and I've been using it successfully since Hoary

Indeed. As I understand, it is the other one (suspend?) which is flaky. My understanding(possibly incomplete) is taht Hibernate is "save state to disk and sleep" suspend(?) is "save state to memory and sleep". Hibernate usually works -- suspend usually does not. My guess is that if the "per model" database was enough to make it solid they would have implemented that anyway.

[fluffymark]

Mmmmmm. I like Bluecurve. But maybe that's just me. I've actually forgotten which out of KDE or GNOME I'm actually using.

[tcpip.livejournal.com]

KDE is like Windows that works properly; GNOME is like MacOS 9 duplicated with a Bizarro ray.

You speak the truth, sage-one. I'm not happy with either (he says from GNOME).

[loosechanj.livejournal.com]

Ubuntu pissed me off by not installing gcc, and then when apt-got (because god forbid they put a compiler in the add/remove software thingy) it failed to work. If I wanted crippled for the masses I'd go buy XP Home.