Getting back the domain of your name from the domain hoarders?

[reddragdiva]

I just got asked someone's help with an interesting question, so I thought I'd ask you lot:

The person had a domain that was their first and last name — firstlast.com — which they were selling their artwork on. They were handing out business cards with the domain name and all — demonstrably trading under it.

The person accidentally let the domain expire, and domaindoorman.com swooped in and grabbed it. It's now a parked search portal.

Now — apparently a few other artists who'd had similar problems with people buying their name as a .com had won the domains back, based on the common-law trademark on their name used as not merely their name but their business. (Something about these being people selling stuff related to the person whose name it actually was.)

"So what I'm wondering is, since the domain is my name, is there any way at all that I can get it back under my control without paying huge amounts of money for court/lawyer fees?"

It's a .com and both parties are in the US — does the person go to WIPO first or last? Or what? Anyone actually done this or know anyone who's actually done this?

Comments

[vampwillow]

I've not had to do this with my personal domains as yet (.com .net .org and .org.uk in my case!) but it is very much the case that many lapsed domains get grabbed to become "search" (sic) portals. iirc, past track record on names-as-domains has related to how 'unusual' the name is even though this case could be easily looked at as a 'squatter' (offer them money?)

[outerego.livejournal.com]

This a difficult one for a number of reasons -

US law vs WIPO (uh-huh)

No outastanding trade mark issue - TMs would add a lot of clout.

Has there been any reasonable correspondence between the parties?

This little niche can be pretty fearesome but I could make some enquiries for free to people who do know more about this. I have some prelim feelings about it but would not like to commit publicly ;-)

[in case you are wondering who I am - stumbled on this post surfing another friend's list - and so have added you as a courtesy)

[hawkeviper.livejournal.com]

Been there done that with chezrene.com. Easy solution is, write to the current registrar listing details of the previous registration, include links to archive.com showing that you had the website and were running a business or a personal website through it. Point out that there is now a domain squatter there; and they'll give you your domain back. 99% of registrars are extremely good about this -- you'll also receive from the registrar the remaining time left that the squatter has paid for. =)

[(Anonymous)]

The registrar is the squatter. I've tried e-mailing and calling, and they haven't responded. Is there any way that I can go higher than the registrar? Or is it possible that DomainDoorman LLC is owned by someone else?

This is the whois for it:

Domain Name: *******
Registrar: DOMAINDOORMAN, LLC
Whois Server: whois.domaindoorman.com
Referral URL: http://www.domaindoorman.com
Name Server: NS-1.NAMESERVERACCOUNT.COM
Name Server: NS-2.NAMESERVERACCOUNT.COM
Name Server: NS-3.NAMESERVERACCOUNT.COM
Status: ok
Updated Date: 22-may-2007
Creation Date: 22-may-2007
Expiration Date: 22-may-2008

[exiledv2.livejournal.com]

If the registrar is the squatter, you have a problem.

Domaindoorman is one of the well-known domain pirates that exist; I can't remember if they're based out of Jamaica or the Netherlands.

Either way, when I worked for Web.com we'd encounter a problem like this every other week. Usually the client was screwed; we'd have sent out the proper domain renewal notifications to the listed account contact info, thus absolving ourselves of liability.

So, if with the previous registrar you were under you:
a) had updated and current contact information
b) did not receive the renewal notice
c) and not receiving that renewal notice was NOT due to something on your part (spam/junk filters, non-recommended contact email address)
THEN, and only then, the previous registrar should assume responsibility for getting it back.

Otherwise, it's coughin' up money time.

[oddlystrange.livejournal.com]

Agreed.

I constantly have to tell clients to avoid the "cheap" registrars (the ones that promise $9 registrations and the like), as I've seen countless of them get bamboozled into paying upwards of $500 to keep the domain when they let it expire by as little as 4 hours.

You might have to hoark up some dollars (the "oops ransom" fee), but you should be able to recover the domain through your original registrar, which hopefully wasn't domaindoorman.

[exiledv2.livejournal.com]

I checked the whois.
It is.
Totally fubared.

[zonereyrie.livejournal.com]

Here you go: http://www.icann.org/udrp/

That's the ICANN Uniform Domain-Name Dispute Resolution Policy which outlines all of the steps you need to follow to dispute a domain name registration by a 3rd party. That's the only accepted path.

[xandraius.livejournal.com]

Thanks for fielding this one. I figured that you would have more people-information resources on your friendslist than I would and steered her your way.

[oddlystrange.livejournal.com]

You have a 45 day grace period to renew the domain. The person should contact her registrar and register the domain.

You have 90 days with a penalty fine to renew.

[mendel.livejournal.com]

If someone else has it it's too late for either of those. The main problem here is that chasing it with a UDRP claim is not cheap (http://www.wipo.int/amc/en/domains/fees/index.html); the domain owner will have to decide whether spending a grand to try get the domain back via UDRP costs more or less than what it would cost to re-establish at another domain.

A UDRP claim will almost certainly cost less than going through the courts and will remove the jurisdiction problems with an American complainant and Jamaican or Dutch registrant. The weak trademark issue probably stands a better chance at the UDRP than in a US court too; there's a better chance that the UDRP panelist will look at the bad-faith registration first and the unregistered trademark second, while I suspect a court action would do the opposite.

(By "the weak trademark issue" I mean that the trademark is not registered and it's a personal name. Personal names are explicitly excluded from UDRP proceedings but doing business under the name might get around that, I'm not sure.)

Keep in mind that there's nothing specifically wrong about registering a domain after its previous registrant lets it expire; that's part of the system, domains are freely available after their owners let them expire, and putting ads on a domain is not necessarily evidence of a bad-faith registration.

Yahoo Site Explorer only shows 130 inlinks to the entire domain, and Google's link: shows zero, so were it my domain I'd take the opportunity to begin doing business under a defendable trademark and use that in a new web identity.

[oddlystrange.livejournal.com]

Actually, accredited registrars are required by ICANN specification to "hold" a domain for 30-45 days in a grace period to allow the original registrant to renew in the event of some kind of fuckup.

There was recently a big hubaloo because GoDaddy.com was putting domains up for auction during this grace period. They've since had their hands smacked, and now hold for the 30 days before putting the domain up for auction.

It is likely that the domain hasn't switched to a new registrant (unless the registrar was shady), and that it is simply the default page for that DNS lookup. For instance, I control the DNS entries for xxx.com, the owner of xxx.com is pointing to domain 1.2.3.4, when he neglects to renew ontime, I can point the domain to my domain, and hold the registration. If the owner goes "Oh shit!" and renews I point the domain back to 1.2.3.4.

More info here:

You are correct, however on the "trademark" issue. Unless it is a registered trademark, which is typically too expensive for mere mortals and artists, there isn't much for the person to use legally.

[bootpunk.livejournal.com]

I had fun with GoDaddy a while back too - I was late renewing (expired Credit Card, updated the details but it didn't roll out across all my registered domains ... grrr), and ended up with a fee of about $150 per domain, for 5 or 6 domains, as they were in the "being held to dispose of" status at GoDaddy. Annoying.

[mendel.livejournal.com]

It has gone to a new registrant, though. Her law_questions post listed the domain. I'm not sure why it's secret here but I won't spoil it :-)

Registrant:
Keyword Marketing, Inc. (********-COM-DOM)
P.O. Box 556
Main Street
Charlestown, West Indies
KN
+852.30164984
+852.30164984
message@keywordmarketinginc.com

Record last updated on 26-May-2007.
Record expires on 22-May-2008.
Record created on 22-May-2007.