Help needed: key points for the polycurious.

[reddragdiva]

I have a wife and a girlfriend and I've had both for five years now, which is longer than any monogamous relationship I had before that. So people keep assuming I'm an expert in this non-monogamy thing, which is a frightening concept.

I suspect I should write a "people keep asking me about polyamory" page for the polycurious. Here's a first draft. Comments on problems welcome, let's assume there's more stuff to add and I'm undecided on whether to include a generic list of links.

I think I've got poly-incompatibility down to a single question ...

Key question: How will you feel when you see your sweetie kiss someone else? How will you feel when you hear your sweetie having sex with someone else? How will you feel when your sweetie falls for someone else (without un-falling for you, note) and just can't shut the fuck up about them?

(a) indifferent
(b) enormously pleased for them (note, that's immediate reaction not considered response)
(c) just a little torn at the heart?

(That's all the same question.)

[ (b2) Reaction: pleased for them, but would quite like them to keep it the heck down so you can sleep kthx.]

Other things to watch out for:

• If you're sure: Don't compromise. Unwillingness to embrace polyamory has to be a deal breaker. (This is easier for you to say now than it is to act on it when you're already embroiled with someone else and there's life to untangle and a cold lonely bed to go back to.)
• The emotionally unstable are as common around poly as everywhere else, but they're not taken out of general circulation by hooking up with someone else. Crazies, predators and fuckheads in general do tend to accumulate in poly communities; eventually people either realise this or there's a great social schism. Drama a go go.

Go on, pick holes. Ideas on phrasing that last point also welcomed.

(Also posted on polyamory_uk.)

Comments

[ladykathryn.livejournal.com]

I can't fault the last point, but not all of us live as uncompromisingly poly :)

[reddragdiva]

Yeah, I was wondering about that one. arkady thought it was pretty relevant, even though she too considers she could do monogamy just fine (and pretty much is with me). Perhaps "If you're sure:" on the front.

[ladykathryn.livejournal.com]

I'd say something like "Never fail to disclose that you're poly, even if you're willing to compromise on it later."

[kest]

It is in fact a fairly key question, but I think a frequently overlooked aspect of it is that sometimes you don't actually *know* how you feel until it happens. Especially that all of that may be perfectly fine with person A under circumstances X, but less than fine with person B under circumstances Y. So the question is, are you prepared to discuss that and deal with it when it happens? And sort of the other side of it, if your partner says this is ok and that is not, are you willing and able to respect that?

[reddragdiva]

Yeah. That's getting into 101 and 102 rather than 001, which this is I think. We could of course pontificate on this at great length, and it'd be worse than defining goth.

[kest]

could be. :) Just while I'm thinking about it tho, here are some common problems I've seen poly relationships have to work through:
* My partner's new partner is sexier/smarter/more suited for them than me
* I think my partner's new partner is a knucklehead
* My partner's new partner thinks *I'm* a knucklehead
* They're moving faster than I'm comfortable with
* My partner seems to, in fact, be unfalling for me (note: 'unfalling' is a sign that someone may not actually be poly that is equally as strong as the jealousy one)
* My partner said they were ok with this poly thing, but now they're reacting badly and won't talk to me about it
* My partner doesn't have enough time for me/give me enough attention

[rufus.livejournal.com]

I think it's missing something of the "I'm a polyamorous bisexual slut and I still won't sleep with *you*" variety, though maybe that's for the advanced class?

also, I think there should be a question about "are you willing to communicate fully, clearly and honestly with your lover(s) regarding your limits, desires and expectations, or do you prefer mindreading?" in there somewhere.

(NB: I am not polyamorous, and while i periodically examine my conscience on that front, it is likely that I will never choose to take that path.)

[secretlondon.livejournal.com]

I think I should write something deep and meaningful here but I'm not exactly sure what.

[serpentstar.livejournal.com]

I think with the Key Question, the answer has to be "it depends". I'm not convinced that every person who has the capability to be functionally polyamorous will also answer (b) to that question, at least at the start. I think that telling them they need to be able to answer (b) (which is how I'm interpreting what you're writing, though I know it's just a rough draft ATM) is potentially forcing a very narrow definition of poly on them, and (IME) a rather American, I suppose, "classical poly" approach. It's an approach that I'm more familiar with from the internet & bad TV documentaries on poly than I am from real life, admittedly, but I've never much liked it.

From my perspective, I am always going to feel just a little torn at the heart when I see or think of a lover with someone else. Life is tough; wear a helmet. Sometimes I'm going to feel enormously pleased for them AS WELL AS just a little torn at the heart; not always, though. If I ever didn't feel just a little torn at the heart, I would be fairly certain that I wasn't very in love with my lover any more; I'd take that as a bad sign.

Despite all that, I seem to have managed OK in polyamorous relationships for most of my adult life, and don't think I'm too much of an emotionally unstable, crazy, predatorial fuckhead. ;)

[reddragdiva]

Hmm, so you don't think that's a key question? Tch! How annoying. I thought I'd nailed it.

Any suggestions?

And OF COURSE you are. YUO HAEV RECENTLY PROVED IT YUO EVIL UNLOVING PRESON.

[serpentstar.livejournal.com]

I don't think it's key to your basic intro to polyamory, no. Not at all. I would say that answering (b) will help, a lot, but I don't think most people -- including most poly people -- will manage it right from the start. I do think it's a... skill? that can be built on, over time.

And, well... Yeah. OK. Guilty as charged.

[serpentstar.livejournal.com]

Oh... suggestions? I would be inclined to emphasise the diverse nature of polyamorous practises -- which encompass every variety of ethical non-monogamy, IMO, not just "classic poly" -- and also take as a starting point some of the stuff in those 2 articles I linked to... yesterday, was it?

[quiet000001.livejournal.com]

I would agree with this- that's the impression that I got from the phrasing also. (That (b) is the One True Answer.)

Because I don't think that feeling somewhat upset about your partner being intimate with someone else is necessarily a poly deal-breaker- what's significantly more important in that situation is WHY you're upset. If, for example, you are upset because you fundamentally believe that everyone has only One True Love and you're trying to pretend otherwise to make your partner happy, that's a very different issue than feeling upset about it because, while you don't have any objection in fundamental concept, you're feeling fragile/having self-esteem/self-confidence issues about being replaced or something like that.

In the latter case, I think that's not an unreasonable way for someone to feel, and that it can potentially be dealt with through communication and understanding. (Maybe putting being actively poly off for a bit to work on the strength of the original relationship, making agreements about time spent, or whatever.) In the former, while I am SURE there are exceptions who will come out of the woodwork about how they're fundamentally monogamous but manage a relationship with a polyamorus partner, I think that kind of fundamental difference in belief structure about relationships is more often than not just going to lead to unresolveable problems at some point.

I also think that being poly is not necessarily a fixed thing. Neph and I were poly for a while (admittedly, mainly theoretically due to practical considerations, but we were both emotionally okay with it) but I'm not sure how interested I'd be in a poly relationship these days. (Of course, right now I'm more or less anti-romantic-relationship in general.) (For me, that is. Other people can be as romantically relationshippy as they want with other people. Unless it's in a class I'm in, or the uni library. Because these are just not appropriate places for tonsil hockey.)

[greap.livejournal.com]

What does point a signify?

[blackavar.livejournal.com]

Of course, I'd call the communication question there a basic one for any sort of sane relationship, whether that be poly, mono, or platonic.

[blackavar.livejournal.com]

Agreed, even while coming from a different internal place. While I personally get reactions ranging from (b) to (b+) (Reaction: enormously pleased for them and with additional more direct and personal enjoyment), I've had long-term functional poly relationships with people who were definitely reaction (c). It's not a requirement to feel immediate joy, just to care about your partner(s) feelings and your own, and to be willing to communicate and work with them.
Reaction (a) would concern me, though.

[apiphile.livejournal.com]

All makes perfect sense to me. I breach all of them and am a perfect hypocrite and an absolute arse to have near any sort of community, but we knew that.

[illdrinn.livejournal.com]

You know me and I can't cope with poly, and I think that last point is exactly why... without it being demeaning on those who do make it work.

I'd help contribute but it would only be bitchy and cynical (completely unlike everything else around me).

[alexmc.livejournal.com]

> Crazies, predators and fuckheads in general do tend to accumulate in poly communities;

Sadly they seem to in Science Fiction Fandom too.

[karen2205]

I think people who are poly-curious probably need to hear something about 'why people are poly?/what you get out of being poly?' and a bit more about 'how it works in practice for different people' before going on to thinking about what makes people poly-incompatible. You can be curious and want to understand how other people's style of relationships work for them without necessarily wanting to try it yourself.

I don't get your question - it looks like all of (a) to (c) are poly-compatible answers to me, with (d) being 'storm off in jealous rage, *again*, after you've seen this happen several times and your partner has been talking with you openly for some time to get to the bottom of the reason for your jealousy'

You might be happily poly and react to seeing your partner with someone else with indifference as you're really tired and just want to sleep, you might feel a little torn at the heart while feeling pleased for them, you might be overall happy about it but want some reassurance, you might be surprised, you might not react at the time but react to it later on etc.

And yeah, you might be happily poly and not want to listen to other people having sex. That's something that'd be pretty close for a deal breaker for me.

Also note that many people tend to be not very good at predicting how they will react to a particular situation in the abstract.

there's life to untangle and a cold lonely bed to go back to.) - Agree re importance of not saying you'll be poly if it's not going to work for you, but there's no need to be critical about being single! Accepting being single every so often is a good way to not get involved with incompatible people.

[reddragdiva]

They're in any suitable group of people to get attention from.

[alexmc.livejournal.com]

It is ok to be a little jealous of your partner's partner - poly people dont have some magic way of switching that off. But they do have to live with it and cope with it.

[alexmc.livejournal.com]

I also think that some mention of "cheating" would be helpful. Poly is not "cheating".

[valkyriekaren.livejournal.com]

Also, "my partner's new partner earns more money than me, and can afford to lavish gifts on them" - this can be incredibly hard even if you think you're quite post-capitalist and well adjusted. There seems to be a lot of cultural baggage about money and status in relationships.

(and on this note, though I realise it may not fit into poly 101, I'd add, "Take care of your own finances. You have no assurance that the state will recognise your relationships or that anyone will be around to take care of you in your old age.")

[hazyjayne.livejournal.com]

If you you the word "sweetie", I will have to kill you.