The tricky part being to try to tell a lie that isn't actually true about some goths somewhere.

[reddragdiva]

A quiet day hanging out with ickle_yuki. hirez decided to brave London for the first time in two years (he has a doctor's note excusing him from London) so ickle_yuki and I went into Camden to meet up with him, girfan and three other people who apparently have LiveJournals and whose LJ usernames will be in the comments to this entry, won't they, John. One had invited a sociology student called Maryanne who was doing something on Goth. Just the subject to ask a table of twenty-year goths for opinions on. (If you ask two goths to define goth, you'll get four answers. Twenty-year goths do ten answers each without drawing breath.) We confused her utterly with the truth; she would have been much less confused if we'd just played Bait The Sociologist and lied outrageously. (An endlessly amusing game I predict you'll see much more of in the near future, as young sociologists really start to notice our potential as term papers in black.) I referred her to Hodkinson, with the caveat that I thought it was a pretty good book if you translate it back from academic into English, but that I knew many goths who cursed its name. She said she really likes goths and finds them interesting and likes their clothes ... I predict we'll see her down the Dev every night within six months.

hirez and girfan had come for the Icon Of Coil ("I took too many drugs/I took too many drugs/I took too many drugs/And wrote a crap but catchy chorus") and Assemblage 23 ("I ripped off VNV/And then my dog died/Oh woe") show at the Underworld. We hung around in the queue in the pissing rain for a short while saying 'hi' to people, then came to our senses and nicked off to the Dev for a quiet Sunday evening drink. The Dev was, of course, packed with showgoers skipping the Swarf support. (But hi to duranorak, sheridanwilde, Flavio, cyberpunkgrrl, untermensch and gothicbarbiecat.) Left for Euston station and the Coopers pub therein. Do not go to this pub. It has real beer, but it also has football yobs (a pile of whom were being loud and racist to bait the almost entirely black barstaff and bouncers, who showed remarkable forbearance but did stop serving them) and Britney on the jukebox. And they won't serve anything in glass, in case of trouble. The Dev may have been packed and smoky, but I just don't get the same urge to kill the entire clientele. One little fitba' skinhead tried to start a fight with me on the way out.

Is real ale in plastic pint glasses a victory for beer? A point to ponder.

Fortean phenomenon: John Hawkes-Reed in L*nd*n, out front of Underworld. No smoke! No mirrors!

(I am so loving this camera thing. By the way, the above is the first output of the camera to achieve public unlimited release. Aren't you lucky!)

Comments

[echo-echo.livejournal.com]

"...young sociologists really start to notice our potential as term papers in black". Yes, I have noticed this growing in frequency. I lost a "friend" over it because she wanted to put my Whitby pics in her paper, I asked to proof read it first...descended into unplesentaries.

The next wave is the screenwriters. We have our first on Mancgoff doing "research".

The trouble tends to be that any media coverage given to goths is usually derisory and often descends into petty mockery. My view is the least media coverage the better.

And that Coopers afaik does usually serve in glass. I suspect the plastic is probably a precaution on match days. But quite frankly after being served an outragiously expensive pint of putrid beer I doubt I shall grace its confines again in a hurry.

[reddragdiva]

Yes. alt.gothic has long and bitter experience baiting sociology and anthropology students in a bind who have to get a paper done real quick. They tend to fuck off when they find out the people flaming them the hardest often have doctorates in humanities themselves. And when it's pointed out in some detail that these people are NOT interested in the good of the goth scene (Paul Hodkinson is a notable exception here ... 'cos he's in said scene!), but in writing something plausible to fit the prejudices of their professors and lecturers. They have no reason to care about subcultural truth and do not in general deserve help.

The planned alt.gothic FAQ revision doesn't seem to have come to fruition, but I did suggest a sentence along the lines of "if you're not actually Dick Hebidge, Paul Hodkinson or a reasonable facsimile, please just don't bother."

There needs to be a web resource on how to lie outrageously but plausibly to annoying sociologists, then bust them after publication. Hmm.

[echo-echo.livejournal.com]

"but in writing something plausible to fit the prejudices of their professors and lecturers. "

Oh, absolutely. Sometimes the truth may not be anywhere near as exciting as the preconception, leaving the result somewhat devoid of sensational revelation, and how everybody loves a revelation.

"The gothic subculture is a remarkabley well adjusted, eclectic, and intelligent grouping of people of all ages, races and backgrounds".

Doesn't quite have the same ring as "The gothic subculture is an extreme fringe of society who worhsip the devil and indulge in sado masochistic sex".

While the first statement may have considerably more "truth" in it it will be the second that draws the most interest, even if it may only apply to the tiniest fraction of the scene.

As someone once said, "Never let the truth get in the way of a good story".

[reddragdiva]

In fairness, I should point out that this particular sociology student was very sweet and nice and seems to want to do justice to the subject. We did point her at Resurrection and the Dev. We'll see. We'll see.

[reddragdiva]

And last night we got one on #uk_goffs as well. Look out in the retards file for a final-year film student called 'jonny'. CAN'T WE SPRAY FOR THE FUCKERS OR SOMETHING?