My hands are shaking when I'm touching ya. They keep shaking when I ain't.

[reddragdiva]

I saw this BBC picture of the Hemel explosion and said "Ka-BOOM!" in a Marvin the Martian voice. arkady's old flat, where she brought up her daughters, was a few hundred metres away, facing the bit that exploded. *shudder* redcountess and I saw the sky this morning and thought the weird colour meant snow was coming.

It's Hell for Suburban Husbands day. I made it out of B&Q alive with a 25kg bag of gravel, a plant pot, two plant pot trays, two powerboards and a 25-pack of blank DVD-Rs — I really need to back up my media disk and put FreeBSD 6 on the household server. The much-delayed date with Arkady depends how Liz is after a bath, though her breathing is much better even with the smell of the smoke.

cavalorn has posted a thread about polyamory (public when I posted this, now locked), as one who has given it up. So I shall now ramble.

There is no agreed-upon definition except "not straight-up monogamy." Demanding an explanation (implicitly or explicitly) from someone who subscribes to one thing that might be labeled "polyamory" for any other random thing that might be labeled "polyamory" doesn't feel particularly fair, any more than it would to require someone who said they thought they might be homosexual to defend anything whatsoever the person thought of that might be labeled "homosexuality."

I've conspicuously had the same wife and girlfriend for a couple of years, which apparently makes me some sort of expert. This is a frightening concept. OTOH, I've had few mono relationships that lasted as long as either, so it's a reasonable marker for success. And it feels at times like a bubbling explosive cauldron we have to keep from going off, but then a lot of relationships including my mono ones feel like that. So again, for my life it's going well. Which is good. By far the biggest source of problems in this poly V is that Liz is chronically ill and there's no easy way around that.

The sex, and potential for such, is a big part of it for me, because I am a tart. Liz would like the opportunity to tart even if she didn't take it (though she says there's definitely no such thing as sex without emotion for her), and Arkady has no tartlike urges at all. There's certainly no such thing as an emotional condom — I have an unduly high regard for anyone I've had sex with, even if they really don't deserve it, so I'm quite susceptible.

There's one person in Australia I can say for sure I'd be in a relationship with if it weren't for the tyranny of distance. We really like each other and click really well. Darn this being on opposite sides of the world! And a friend in the US I'd certainly be sleeping with on a regular basis if not for the distance. And there will be any number of people in London I could click just as well with I haven't met — there's a few I can think of off the top of my head that I am really keen on who are unfortunately monogamous. Falling in love with someone new will perturb existing things — falling for Arkady, which was completely unexpected (to us, if not to every single other person around us), did shake things with Liz a bit.

I am very much in love with my darlings and they make me enormously happy. I am in fact the luckiest man in the world; you just think you are.

Polyamory is a lot more work than monogamy. But then, most worthwhile things are more work than not bothering.

Comments

[sarcaustik.livejournal.com]

The main problem with polyamoury - speaking as another who has given it up - is the tendency to spend more time debating definitions than anything else.

[cavalorn.livejournal.com]

Fantastic.

Tea and biccies, I think.

[reddragdiva]

This is something I explicitly avoid. We are not some theoretical San Franciscan construct, we are us.

[rosefox]

And a friend in the US I'd certainly be sleeping with on a regular basis if not for the distance.

If that's not me, I'd like to apply for your next available opening in that department.

Ahem. *)

[ex-unagothae16.livejournal.com]

I'll wrestle you in Jell-o for it ;)

[feanelwa.livejournal.com]

Damn damn damn, I forgot to go and get 15% off a heater and a long string of blue lights at Homebase.

[reddragdiva]

Not to mention a string of hot chicks you really like.

[ashbet]

>>>Polyamory is a lot more work than monogamy. But then, most worthwhile things are more work than not bothering.

Bless you :D

>>>There is no agreed-upon definition except "not straight-up monogamy." Demanding an explanation (implicitly or explicitly) from someone who subscribes to one thing that might be labeled "polyamory" for any other random thing that might be labeled "polyamory" doesn't feel particularly fair, any more than it would to require someone who said they thought they might be homosexual to defend anything whatsoever the person thought of that might be labeled "homosexuality."

I said nearly the same thing . . . we've been (in a friendly fashion) arguing about this via IM all morning. But yes -- polyamory is such an inexact umbrella term that you might as well be saying "Pagan" and expecting everyone who fits that definition to act or believe in the same way.

But, yes. I'm with you (and Liz and Arkady) on this one.

**hugs**

-- A <3<3

[karen2205]

This is why I prefer the term 'non-monogamous' to describe myself - that explicitly means anything which isn't monogamous, rather than polyamorous which is used in so many different ways by different people.

[also-huey.livejournal.com]

I suspect I have a lengthy rant about this in me as well, and if life ever slows down, maybe I'll post it.

...it feels at times like a bubbling explosive cauldron we have to keep from going off...

Mine is just now getting to the point where that isn't "most of the time". All of the reasons I had before for "why this could never possibly work" have certainly shown themselves. Still,

...I am in fact the luckiest man in the world; you just think you are...

...my wife and girlfriend could totally kick your wife and girlfriends' asses.

[reddragdiva]

Your seconds shall meet my seconds at dawn, sir! And while they're doing that, we'll nick off down the pub.

[sclerotic-rings.livejournal.com]

And a friend in the US I'd certainly be sleeping with on a regular basis if not for the distance.

I have to admit that I'm flattered, but what happens if the Czarina has issues?

[reddragdiva]

We can wear Star Wars masks and pretend it's live-action slash.

(*drooooooooooooop*)

[allezbleu.livejournal.com]

i can think of one certain boy who is definitely luckier than you ;P

why on earth would i want to share him?

aaah its horses for courses dearie!

[reddragdiva]

Sex with horses is hazardous!

[redcountess]

Well, with Diva, there's enough to go around ;-)

[dennyd.livejournal.com]

Cavalorn's post is locked unfortunately.

See my recent post re: the Buncefield explosion and geographical proximity.

[reddragdiva]

It was public when I linked it!

Polyamory is a lot more work than monogamy

[ewx.livejournal.com]

Polyamory can potentially reduce the demands on your time if you happen to be a leaf node. (Obviously this would be a rubbish reason for doing it, but still.)

Re: Polyamory is a lot more work than monogamy

[reddragdiva]

I can think of a few people who like it for this reason, actually. They get the cute chick and they get time to geek.

[siani-hedgehog.livejournal.com]

But then, most worthwhile things are more work than not bothering.

i disagree with this. most of the good things that have happenned to me have been really easy. getting this house was dead easy - it just sort of fell in our lap. the good jobs i've had were easy to get, and the things i've been best at i also found the easiest. the best relationships i've had have never really needed much work - they just fell into place,and we got on well. same with friendships. the ones i had to work hard at were crap in the end.

*shrugs*
i'm not arguing against polyamory here, not at all, but i am arguing against the received wisdom that relationships are a lot of hard work. they aren't, not if they're good ones. they just come naturally.

[the-siobhan.livejournal.com]

My current relationships are easy, but I think that has a lot to do with how hard I had to work in the past. It gave me a much clearer idea of what's important to me, what I'm willing to work on and what I can just let slide, and when I'd rather just throw in the towel.

Things wouldn't be nearly so smooth now if I hadn't had the experience of having to make all that effort in the past.

[severina-242.livejournal.com]

There's one person in Australia I can say for sure I'd be in a relationship with if it weren't for the tyranny of distance.

Whos' the lucky guy/gal?

[reddragdiva]

GEE, I WONDER!

[50-ft-queenie.livejournal.com]

Polyamory is a lot more work than monogamy. But then, most worthwhile things are more work than not bothering.

Hear fucking hear!

I have one friend who, everytime we talk about my relationships, shakes her head and comments on how complicated it all must be. Yeah, it is complicated sometimes. Since when is that a bad thing? Damn near every worthwhile thing I've done in my life has been complicated.

[strangedave.livejournal.com]

Gah! At being pointed to locked posts.
Poly is more work, and has greater rewards, as you say.
The problem with poly is it doesn't stop most plain old normal relationship issues, you just have more of them.

Poly, open relationship, non-monogamy, the terms all have slightly different meanings, but the nuances don't matter to most people not in the relationship, and the people that are in the relationship need to know in far more detail than that. Poly is generally a useful term to indicate what is generally going on, and if people need to know more than that, they can ask.

While open relationship probably describes our actual situation, I generally use poly instead to indicate we are open to outside relationships that become more serious (and have in the past). But all most people really want/need to know is availability, and whether its OK with your partner, and all the terms discussed cover that fine.

[cavalorn.livejournal.com]

More work? Definitely. Greater rewards? Arguable.

[cavalorn.livejournal.com]

Yes. Which is why a flat assertion that the rewards ARE greater is untenable.

[reddragdiva]

The word "potentially" is clearly implicit in the statement; as such, I have to say don't be dense.

[godgirl.livejournal.com]

do you think/know that some of the monogamous people you are really keen on in are/would be interested back if you were single and monogamous?

...or is it merely your justification for not being able to date them?

;-)

[reddragdiva]

I know one or two who I'd be just ideal for except the detail of being a polyamorous bisexual tart ;-)

[hazyjayne.livejournal.com]

OK, I am a little late in on this discussion, and the fact that it is 00.55am and and brain is mush... but that just made me go "Awwww..."

*feels soppy*

[reddragdiva]

Indeed!