Come into my sleep.

[reddragdiva]

A question that has come up elsewhere: How do you deal with sleeping with a friend?

It was a good idea at the time, then you wake up and go "um." Or "woohoo!" But what do they think? What's a workable etiquette? What on earth? Why is it believed that sleeping with a friend ruins the friendship? Please ramble, recount improbable tales and/or pontificate at length.

(The most difficult thing I've found seems to be how to deal with if one of you decides they want this to continue as an ongoing thing and the other doesn't. I've never quite worked that one out.)

[I want to make love to you all, by the way, because my friends are gorgeous, charming and fabulous, and I would jump you in a second. Modulo logistical practicalities. Try me if you don't believe me.]

[I am also most pleased finally to make the ideal post for this lovely icon from apiphile.]

Anonymous comments are fine, I care much more about what you have to say than who you are.

Comments

[steer.livejournal.com]

Hmm... well, I must say it's never ever been a problem.

I've been the "would prefer this to continue" and I've been the "would prefer this not to continue". As long as nobody is misleading anyone else then it has always worked out well for me -- perhaps I am just lucky or perhaps I have particularly well-sorted friends.

I have never lost a friend like this and have often been better friends with the person. I can't even think of a case where it's made things weird. Actually, I find it easier than trying to establish a friendship with an ex if we became lovers soon after meeting because then we don't have an established non-sexual friendship position we're used to.

[dennyd.livejournal.com]

I've become firm friends with several people I've had one-night stands or otherwise casual sexual relationships with. I've also had a couple of one-night stands with people I had established friendships with. I've never had any problems arise from it - in all cases we've stayed friends post-shag, with some happy memories tucked away.

I think the downfall comes when you buy into the culturally approved belief that 'sleeping together ruins a friendship'. Why should it? Only because people believe that it will, imho.

[reddragdiva]

"I've also had a couple of one-night stands with people I had established friendships with."

Yeah, that's the case I'm interested in here.

[bluehelen.livejournal.com]

Wot dennyd said.

[lpetersson.livejournal.com]

As long as both are mature and aren't expecting any more than casual sex I don't see a problem with it.
I've slept with a few of my best friends and found that it made conversations about sex and relationships easier and more open.
It also made us closer friends in many other ways.

But then again, I've also stayed friends with most of my ex's and generally don't have a problem with sleeping with friends as long as we fancy eachother.

The most important thing in my opinion is that both parties absolutely must be honest with eachother about whether they want to continue to have a casual relationship, whether it was a one-off or whether one or both was hoping to be more than friends...
If either party is in any way uncomfortable with making their feelings known then it could be a friendship buster...

[karen2205]

I don't consider sleeping with a friend as a friend is quite the same thing as what people generally mean by 'casual sex'. If I'm sleeping with a friend (and all of the people I've done sexual stuff with have been friends) then there's a relationship of trust and care for each other, together with the other bits of the friendship that meld with the sexual part in a way that makes it $more* than just 'casual sex' [not that casual sex is Bad - this is just different] and bring me closer to those people.

*not sure 'more' is quite the right word - maybe 'different' is a better term. And I'm not sure I'm really the right person to be trying to describe this given that I've never done 'casual sex' by the commonly accepted definition, so I'll be quiet now.

I don't need to 'fancy' people to sleep with them. When my head is in the right place, with a friend I trust & who is someone it's OK [according to my internal definition of OK] for me to sleep with, I may well just go ahead and do it. It's about liking and caring for the person rather than fancying for me.

Certainly agree re both (or all) parties being honest with each other about what they want.

[feanelwa.livejournal.com]

If anybody were going to say anything other than "we stayed friends and everybody was happy" they probably wouldn't say it where the other party was reading ;)

[reddragdiva]

At least one person has availed themselves of anon posting ;-)

[lolliepopp.livejournal.com]

Erm, good question. I've got to the point where I really can't have sex with my good freinds anymore because a - we've done it before and it just doesn't feel right now, b - We never have and we never will no matter what & c - We're just too close and it would feel incestuous in some way (if that makes sense)

There is someone in my life who occasionally falls through all of those arguements and yes sometime we do the sex thing, mainly because we both happen to be in the same place and the same time and feel the same level of horniness (I blame drugs).

But I do feel a wierd 'guilt' about it - like I've been using them for my own gratification, which is stupid really because I know they must get something out of it too!

I think it must a freind thing - I'm very close to my freinds and compared to some - have slept with very few of them. There is a "could have sex with this person" switch in my brain which turns off once a certain level of freindship has been reached.

L
x

[hobbitblue.livejournal.com]

It depends on the people involved, I lost a very good friend that way because after fooling around on numerous occasions he decided to make it into a big deal, re-found his religion (that's always *so* convenient, not) and decided it was immoral (no) unhealthy (possibly) and should stop. Which was fine but then it was very hard to go back to our usual hanging out together routines, and then we both met our current respective partners and we've lost touch despite my best efforts. I think he's embarrassed to remember the friends-with-benefits aspect of things and I'm not sure he's mature enough to have mentioned it to his new wife who I have yet to meet or even talk to. Awkward. *sigh*

[ladykathryn.livejournal.com]

The only time I really, honestly regret sleeping with one of my friends was right before leaving AK; he got weirded out, and didn't have time to recover before I left, so I didn't have time to say goodbye to him. Which was very sad. He was entirely unsuitable as a boyfriend, being a slutty, alcoholic, avowedly unattached and unreliable ex-pat from Newcastle, but he was an awesome friend and I loved him very much. As a friend. He's doing very well now, I've heard, but we've never recovered the friendship. Other times, it's just been one of those things that becomes part of your history together, you know? And of course, one time it worked out spectacularly :) I think it only ruins the friendship if one person or the other lets it. I've always considered sleeping with people who weren't friends a little bit odd. Why would you want to fuck someone you didn't like?

[ergotia.livejournal.com]

I've always considered sleeping with people who weren't friends a little bit odd. Why would you want to fuck someone you didn't like?

I know what you mean, but I do sometimes get a "want sex with you right now dont care whether you are the sort of person I would be friends with" impulse, dont you ? Also sometimes I have satisfactory sex with a new person, like them just fine but dont become close friends or do it again withgg them.

[(Anonymous)]

I think it depends mostly on other circumstances.

When it happenned with a best friend back home, it happenned once, after we drank his entire pay packet. It was alluded to obliquely fairly often, but was our dirty little secret, since he was in a nominally monogamous relationship. We stayed quite close, and laughed about it together. I reckon it would've been a lot more complicated if we'd been single. But i've not been single in 10 years.

When it happenned with a friend who was not in a committed relationship, it was actually great fun. We had the "what are we doing exactly? talk before we had sex - it came up in conversation, amazingly. We hung out and got to know one another, and occasionally had great sex. No pressure, no committment. Fabulous!

When it happenned here, it blew up horribly, mostly due to my primary relationship, but also due to incompatible expectations - I didn't feel like I had the time or energy for anything too serious. I made my excuses, and we left it there, but there were hurt feelings, and I regret it.

I think the best approach really is to just have a talk about it either *before* or very first thing in the morning after. And to be very, very frank. You are friends after all - they probably already know if you're going to obsess, or if you are going to regret it, if they search themselves enough.

To be honest, I find it easier to deal with than "will he/won't he" stuff. I pretty much know where I stand with a shag and a frank discussion. I get a bit emo if I am not sure how or if I'm wanted.

[lucybond.livejournal.com]

*nods*

I once said to a really good friend, when I was sober (but he probably thought I wasn't) That I'd love to sleep with him if it wasn't for the fact that he was single, & needed an actual partner a lot more than he needed to get laid.

It was true, too. if he'd been in an open relationship, I'd have been on him like a rash. Now he has a girlfriend, he's a much, much happier guy, & although it means that he's not just unavailable, but I don't even get to do normal touchy-feely friendstuff with him like backrubs, which we always used to do, as it would make his GF uncomfortable, I'm so happy that he's not lonely any more.

Under those circumstances, my horniness is a lot less important than my friend being happy.

(still, I miss the hand-massage: I don't know anyone else that can do that)

[ergotia.livejournal.com]

Bucking the trend here, I am poly but do differentiate between friends, lovers, sweeties, partners etc. Friends who shag can be a helpful concept, but I think things do change when you have sex with someone. May be they should not, but they do. So I think it is the dread communicate - examples; that was fun but I would prefer not to do it again, that was fun maybe we could do it again some time, that was fun and my feelings for you could go deeper but I have no room in my life for empotional committment right now, I have just realised I have been in love with you for years - etc.

[reddragdiva]

"I think things do change when you have sex with someone."

Can, certainly. "There's no such thing as an emotional condom," as I pontificate.

[lucybond.livejournal.com]

I've never slept with anyone who wasn't a friend, apart from one or two who were recent acquaintances at the time.

This has either ended up with me 'going out' with the person/people or just continuing being friends who may or may not fuck again.

Really not much of a problem, apart from a brief bout of awkwardness on my part after I got married, seeing as due to the new circumstances & attitudes of all parties, one close friend was suddenly a friend-without-benefits, so to speak.

However, I stopped feeling weird after a bit & we are the best of pals.

Although I am monogamous at this time, I can look back on my past & remember that I never worried that much about how sex might affect friendships. I'm picky, & friends with some pretty cool people, so having an attitude that sex was one of a number of good things that could be shared by people who already enjoy eachothers company hasn't really caused grief.

I know that this isn't the way it is for everyone, & I'm sure some people find themselves in all sorts of trouble, but not me, really.

[50-ft-queenie.livejournal.com]

Ah yes, the old "you're married so I guess you're not poly anymore" assumption. M and I got a bit of that after we got married too.

[some-fox.livejournal.com]

I think perhaps the biggest problem in all relationships is if there is a discrepancy between what the people involved want. I think the only thing to do is to try to be open about what you want (at the time, obviously might be subject to change) and trust the other person to put themselves where they want to be around that. Not easy though when people are likely to feel hurt.

[i-beloved.livejournal.com]

Sigh... the exciting life of "have never shagged a friend". You know how prudish I am, D :)

[siani-hedgehog.livejournal.com]

(The most difficult thing I've found seems to be how to deal with if one of you decides they want this to continue as an ongoing thing and the other doesn't. I've never quite worked that one out.)

person who wants less always wins. i mean, they may end up with *nothing* instead of what they wanted, but they always win.

[karen2205]

How do you deal with sleeping with a friend?

Sleep with more friends - so that you manage to circumvent the societal conditioning that says 'sleeping with friends automatically ruins friendships'.

Pick the friends you're going to sleep with carefully; I've plenty of friends I wouldn't sleep with, even if their ethical structure allowed it because they'd be too likely to cause Drama or they're fucked up in ways I don't want to deal with. This leads into my primary aim/objective which is to protect myself at all times - think I'm a bitch if you like, but I don't have time or the inclination to deal with really fucked up people as lovers. And another aspect to that is creating clear expectations before you start. I'm theoretically happy (haven't done this enough yet) to sleep with people 'as friends' on an ongoing occassional basis. I wouldn't want a traditional 'one night stand' where the people involved avoid each other afterwards, but a situation where I slept with someone once and we were both open to the possibility of the same thing happening again at some point in the future is OK with me.

[reddragdiva]

"think I'm a bitch if you like, but I don't have time or the inclination to deal with really fucked up people as lovers."

Try saying "that's not 'bitch', that's 'nice but with a spine.'" >;-)

[sprezzatoura.livejournal.com]

A few years back a close friend - with whom there had been a small amount of by then very ancient history - got drunk and revisited the past. I got up and made a cup of tea, we both acted perfectly normally and didn't mention it at all until I was leaving, when we hugged and I said "This is where I say 'thank you for having me', we both laugh awkwardly and never speak of this again".

Thankfully, the friendship was not damaged at all but it's not a risk I'd take again.

[(Anonymous)]

Pretend it never happened and do not talk about it. Do it again next weekend.

...joking aside the first time was evidently a bad idea in retrospect; he wanted to repeat the exercise but I didn't. That soured a friendship for some time after.

But with friends since it's been much less stressful. Mostly the pattern has been get drunk, it seems like a good idea at the time and just hope their housemates aren't too sarcastic the following morning. Or for that matter when all four of you rejoin the party.

There was a extended period of repetition in one case, and particularly good sex it was too.

[arkady.livejournal.com]

Simple answer: I don't. I don't do casual sex. There has to be a feeling, a connection there; a relationship. I have to be very certain of someone before I take that step, because in my experience once you go past that point, you can never go back. Things do change, and it can't be undone. I have done it, and it always went badly wrong afterwards. I found it very hard to accept even casual physical contact from the person concerned, because I wasn't sure if a hug or a kiss would be a precursor of the person wanting more from me than I was willing to give. One of the reasons I really don't like being hugged or kissed is because I am very wary of that seemingly innocent gesture leading to the other person wanting something more overtly sexual and the situation getting out of hand.

There's only one former partner with whom I have remained friends, and that's cymrys. But even with him - where we have been friends far longer post-relationship than we were actually together - I do have to check my own reactions. He is a happily-married man; a hug from him is simply that and I know it's not a precursor to him wanting anything more; but I still break it off first and feel guilty for doing so.

It's my problem, no-one else's, but I will not risk losing another good friendship to my sexual hangups. So I can be friends; with a few, I will even be relaxed enough in their company to hug them, but I will not cross that line with them unless we are both prepared for a relationship to follow.

[sweetcyanide.livejournal.com]

The worst one is: how do you deal with sleeping with a friend, and it turns out to be not very good? One I had to deal with recently!

In general though, I have found sex strengthens friendships as long as everyone knows where they stand. Having said that, there are friends who I really wouldn't- not even because I don't find them attractive, but because it just wouldn't be *right*.

I don't think it should ever ruin a friendship though, not unless there are lots of other issues surrounding it :-)

[siani-hedgehog.livejournal.com]

The worst one is: how do you deal with sleeping with a friend, and it turns out to be not very good?

shrug, realise that everyone likes different things in a partner, and accept that this is a good reason to be friends and not lovers? i mean, while you may think it was totally crap, someone else may think it is perfect. it's not like there are *any* hard and fast rules on what makes sex good.

[(Anonymous)]

I've never had it work out, with the exception of friends I made through kink-oriented communities to begin with. I'm not sure why that made it easier to suspend other issues, but it did. The boundaries were easier to draw for all parties involved. I think a big part of that was not having to explain nearly so much, because complicated and esoteric issues were already understood or understandable. In this, I may have been fortunate. Even then, there were backfires, generally in the form of the other person becoming too attached to me.

Outside that environment, I find that the negotiations process opens up too many complications. I have to trust my partner with too much stuff, which makes significant attachment on my part very difficult to avoid.

These days, the type of mental/emotional work I'm doing would make sex outside of a romantic relationship impossible for someone who wasn't already fully aware what they'd be getting into anyhow.

[apiphile.livejournal.com]

I've had sex with friends I didn't particularly fancy and wasn't in love with, and that usually works out okay, but if there's an underlying interest it becomes difficult.

[notintheseheels.livejournal.com]

I think it's fine as long as both parties want the same thing. If I knew a friend really liked me but I wasn't particularly interested, I'd be too concerned for the friendship to do anything. I've had sex with friends when it's been clear that it's just a bit of fun and continued to be just as close afterwards, if not moreso. I've also had sex with a friend and it's turned into something more, and we're both happy with that. I think it also helps that my friends and I don't tend to be the sort of people that find that sort of thing particularly awkward or embarrassing. As with many things, I suspect communication is key. I think I'll stop stating the bloody obvious now!

[missjanette.livejournal.com]

heh.

(for informational purposes: i am a heterosexual female who only has monogamous relationships. )

I'm impossibly ridiculous and have managed to turn all sleeping-with-friends into dating-type relationships. Even my first and only one night stand turned into 2 years of back-&-forth relationship craziness.

One of the best sexual experiences I ever had was with a man who had broken up with me several months prior. I still wanted to date him, but I knew that was impractical. When he came to see me, things started heading in a sexual direction & we talked about expectations. I told him I'd probably feel lousy no matter what, but if we did it at least I'd have a really good time before I felt lousy. We spent the entire day in bed. Afterwards there was no weirdness, nothing bad that I had expected. Maybe that was what I needed to get him out of my system. That was about 15 years ago and we're still sorta friendly.

My current dilemma is that I have to figure out what to do about all these emotions that are going haywire inside me. My partner died and it's hard to contemplate being with anyone else. I didn't think I'd ever be in this position. I'd love to get laid, but there's really no suitable candidates right now. I'm a fucking wreck, so I don't think I'm safe to date either. I have a friend who I'm very curious about, but I don't know what I want and I KNOW right now is not the time to be experimenting with what I want, at least from him. There's also a lot of potentially weird baggage bc he was friends with bob as well. For some ppl, they can use sex as part of the grieving process. I don't think I'm there yet.

I don't know if this properly answers your question, but those are my current head-contents on the subject.

[50-ft-queenie.livejournal.com]

I used to be in the "sex with friends is bad idea" camp. Then I started posting to alt.gothic. ;P

Seriously though, as long as everyone is adult and upfront about what's going on, I don't see a problem with shagging your friends. After all, you already know you like them and that you have things in common. I'd much rather sleep with someone I know and am comfortable with than pick up a stranger in a bar.

The only thing I hate is when you sleep with/snog/etc. with someone and they get all weird afterwards.

[marylemore.livejournal.com]

The only thing I hate is when you sleep with/snog/etc. with someone and they get all weird afterwards.

I think a lot of this is tied into the How and Why the fucking came about.

If it was two adults being upfront with established boundaries and communications versus two people who stepped over the "friendship relationship boundaries" into an undefined area with insufficient discussion there's a lot more room for confusion. Worse even when one or both parties are so confused by everything and just don't know how to have the talk to set up basic ground rules for how to proceed in any direction - The "We Shall Never Speak of This/Pretend Nothing Happened" and "And That Was the Last I Saw of Him/Her" endings fit so well into those situations and end otherwise good friendships. =\

As for myself:

I can think of some I would have sex with if I was single but the threat of unwanted emotional entanglement and my tendency to only be intimate with long term partners totally makes me a bad candidate for friendly casual sexing.

Not my cup of tea but cheers to those who can enjoy it.

[shamus9999.livejournal.com]

I avoid the issue. 1. I have no friends. 2. I have chronic insomnia so no sleeping for me. Simple. :)